Discussion: Hokas- longevity?

(Sorry, posted this on the orienteering section by mistake. These aren't exactly orienteering shoes!)

I'm on my first pair of Hoka Mafate 2s. I've used them more for training than expected with a cracked toe and a big ultra coming up. Anyone have feedback on how long they last, and when it's time to replace them? I heard of one guy who did 4 hundred milers in the same pair, and another who beat them to heck in a few hundred km of training.

According to Ang, half the racers at Western States were bouncing along in them this year.

My first pair have 517 km and don't show or feel any reason to replace them. These are not the pair I did the race with, so they didn't rack up 160 km of that total easily all in one day. This has been the result of many training days of about 25-45 km.

Ask Karl Meltzer, he would know! :)

I can ask my local running store where I bought mine. The owner is an ultra runner and has used the Hokas.

Thanks, guys. Too early for me to tell. I have about 450km on mine right now and they seem fine. Maybe I should see if your store has any of my size in stock- can't find them locally.

I noticed severe, uneven wear in my Stinson Evos, in just 100 miles. It was very odd. The bottom of the sole became concave under the ball of the foot. I also noticed medial side uneven wear, but I'm not a big over-pronator. Also in the first 100 miles my speed laces fell apart. The sheath tore and they became useless. Not very easy to replace, as anyone who has done so knows all to well. I cut mine off and installed "normal" laces. (salomon style because one of the designers came from salomon apparently).

I had to retire mine after 150-180 miles. The uneven midsole and outsole breakdown would lead to an altered gait and then injury. This was a HUGE disappointment, and an expensive experiment, at 170 plus tax...almost $185 per pair!! I ran mostly on fire roads, some singletrack. Maybe 20% roads at MOST.

The ~4mm drop might actually be 6. either way, due to the soft, thick sole, it feels like less of a drop when you're running, especially if your run Chi or Pose style.

I would wear them again if the problems were fixed and they weren't so expensive and "disposable". Running long, steep downhills in these is a huge advantage, if the surface is smooth. They're not great, running through hard-pack, technical type stuff, as the sole is very wide and large. They would be AWESOME for sand or snow running though. They should sell a ton of these in the northern states and Canada. They're truly a no-brainer for winter running, especially with Yak Trax.

Disclaimer:
I weigh around 190lbs, and sometimes (1x/week?) run with a hydration pack that weighs 8-15+lbs (it's 90-100 degrees here every day in the santa monica mountains in the summer), so you could call me "heavy" for a a runner. I mostly run with nothing though.

Vasque has a new shoe coming out that is very similar to Hokas, maybe a better design. I haven't tried them yet (they're a team sponsor at DART-nuun) but I can't wait to try them and compare. Vasque shoes tend to last a very long time, in my experience.

http://www.irunfar.com/2013/08/best-trail-running-...

I haven't tried hoka's (yet), but have heard the complaint by many that they don't last long.
Very excited to hear about the vasque version. I am a big fan of vasque shoes.

Bent, what size of Mafate 2s are you looking for? I can check stock at 2 stores in Calgary and one in Canmore.

I just talked to some Hoka reps here in Greenville at an outdoor trade show. They hadn't heard of very many issues with low mileage, uneven wear, or faulty laces with any shoes after the first couple production batches. Expect great things from this company as they were just purchased by footwear giant Deckers and now have big money to poor into R&D and more athlete sponsorship. They are sending me a pair to try out. Can't decided between the Stinson or the Mafate. At the very least they seem to be a great trade show shoe. Like standing on pillows.

@Tico, good to hear since 'Bent may have to use his current pair for a race in two weeks.

@CO, 'Bent is size 9 - thanks!

Kyle: go with the Stinson Evos.

I have the Stinson Evo and the Mafate 2. I personally like my Mafate 2s better. They fit me a little better and I prefer how the conventional lace tightens on the foot versus the QuickDraw lace (even though I'm a fan of the QuickDraw laces on other brands like Salomon)

That said, I use my Stinson Evos on pavement and my Mafates on trail, so I haven't had a chance to see how I might like the Stinsons on trail.

Um, thank Bash but I am a size 10. Can't wear a 9 (Too bad, it's Salomon Sample size). I think the Mafate 2s are more durable than the Stinson evos, which are the uber-light version.

Oops. :D

What colour are his eyes, Bash? Just testing...

Looks like the Carbons have hooked me up with some new clown shoes!

'Bent: Gord's Running Store has a pair of size 10 Mafate2. They are $140.
Let me know if you want me to pick them up and have them shipped, or the store will also ship - I would just need to speak with the manager (Gord).

I'm now somewhat caught up - it sounds like Carbon has already taken care of this. If so, I'll cancel the hold I just placed.

@Wilberto, in my defence, on the weekend I found 'Bent a pair online at Running Free in size 9.5, and I *did* remember that he said they were off by half a size. Bigger, smaller - what's the difference, eh?

I got my new Hokas - Thanks, Carbon. After 66 hours of running the old ones are a bit softer underfoot than the new ones, but still have life left in them. The new firmer ones seem a bit more boumcy, ready for CCC.

mafate WP 342k
mafate 1 570k
stinson 387k
bondi b 640k retired
bondi b 257k

I have a size 11 Stinson for sale, cheap!

'Bent's new fluorescent yellow Hokas blind me every time I go into the front hall.

REI has Stinson EVOs (in white/blue/yellow) for sale for $118 right now. If you can pick them up at the store and don't mind waiting a week, no shipping costs. They're usually not stocked at the stores. I know this isn't much help for our Canadian neighbors, but *someone* might be interested in saving 50 bucks.

Looks like I should finally retire my first pair of Hokas, the Mafate 2. My current pair will be done before UTMB this summer. The only beef I have with mine are that they are a touch tight in the toebox on my third and fourth toe. No biggie for shorter runs, but on stuff over 6 hours it means taping up etc. Anybody know if the Mafate 3s have any more room in the toe box? If not, I'll consider ordering 1/2 size larger.

I tried a 2nd pair of Stinsons and had the same problem. 150 miles max before uneven breakdown. Unsafe. Recipe for injury. n=1.

recipe for injury? how did they feel for the first 150 miles? I have over 200 and some 300 miles on a few pairs with no injury due to the fact that they breakdown. but I'm 52 so maybe I am easy on them. ; )

Bent - you should check out the Altra Olympus for another maximum cush trail runner with natural footshaped toebox

Interesting. Love the footbed shape, but not sure about the tread. How's the traction?

I love mine, just wish the ball of the foot didn't wear out so unevenly. The tread is fine, but be careful on tight switchbacks…it feels like your foot can 'slide off the shoe'. Also if you wear othotics that are the slippery surface (most kinds are), this exacerbates that issue. You'll get used to the limitations pretty quickly. Definitely different foot placement than you would use with a flat, that's for sure. You're not going to step on slanted rocks, etc. like you would in a normal shoe. Just my 2 cents. I'm 6'3 and run anywhere from 185-215lbs and run rain forest, desert, high alpine, and sandy trails…i.e. "all of the above" between the Pacific Northwest and SoCal.

Are you saying the shoe box is so wide you slide around in it, or just that the sole is so tall that you have to be careful it doesn't tip over- (which would be similar to learning to use Hokas)?

It's a roomy toe box, and overall a wide shoe (Stinson). I have a very high instep and wide forefoot, so unique situation. "highly pathological" as my podiatrist would say. History of morton's and other interspace neuromas (treated successfully with alcohol injections into the nerves/myelin sheaths). All that to say I prefer a roomy toe box.

These shoes are Harley Davidson Fat Boys, not Suzuki GSX-Rs. Awesome for fire road running, especially long downhills. Unbelievable on long hard fireroad descents. tight, sharp rock technical stuff? Super overgrown roots in the PNW? Iffy.

The best application for these shoes, that nobody talks about, is running on sand or snow. Much larger surface area (FLOAT) than other running shoes. These would also make KILLER screw shoes.

Try "injecting" the alcohol elsewhere. That may fix everything (except your stability issues) :)

Sorry BroJackson, I was asking about the Altra Olympus not the Hokas.

I'm a Hokaistsa too, and all my friends can't believe how you can fly downhill on these things when you let the brakes off. May try screws in my original pair.
I did find the Mafate toebox a touch tight on the 3rd and 4th toe area and have the black nails to prove it. Looks like the Altra is better there.

These shoes are the fatbike of running shoes.

New Balance is coming out with their version of the uber cushioned 4mm drop shoe - apparently the reviews are amazing. (I can't recall the name / number of the shoe) Can't comment yet but I can say this - New Balance shoes tend to fit well for people with a wide forefoot, high instep and narrow heel - like mine. (I too have had my share of neuromas from ill fitting footwear but mostly from a combo of my foot mechanics with classic xc skiing - still dealing with this but I digress).
I am a huge fan of Altra's due to toe spreadability, zero drop, and nicely cushioned for high impact / high mileage. Are they available in the GTA? I've met people from Toronto who couldn't find them there but you can get them in Ottawa.
Finally, which hoka's are recommended for peeps with wide forefeet?

T-Rex, got a link to the NB review? I like their wider shoes. Also be interested in trying on some Altras.

I saw an article a while back (can't remember the magazine)that showed several brands of uber cushioned shoes (6 or more?), everyone seemed to be jumping into that market. Let's keep our eyes peeled and let each other know if we find any in addition to the Hokas, Altras and New Balance that we've discovered so far - I'd like to check out all the options!

Gear Junkie had an article about a number of new 'big' shoes coming out a few months ago. Brooks was also going to be offering a version.

From the article in the link below:

"In December, Altra debuted the Olympus, with a 32-­millimeter sole. The similarly sized Brooks Transcend and New Balance Fresh Foam come out in February, and the Vasque ShapeShifter Ultra in March. Hoka's latest model, the Conquest, is available in January."

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-gear/footwear...

No link as of yet Bent - but I'll ask the person who told me.

I think that was the article. The competitors look like regular shoes with more cushioning, but not the wide platform. May be stability issues. Still, may try some on.
Thanks.

Vasque has a nice pair of Hoka-type shoes. Salomon has had a pair out for a while. Pretty much every company is jumping on the bandwagon...even altra!

Slight sidetrack, but I have always wondered a few things since seeing high cushion shoes. Don't you lose a lot of trail feel with them making it harder to run technical stuff...or is there just an adaptation phase? Similarly, doesn't the higher centre of gravity expose you to the possibility of more ankle rolling?

Yep. Like someone said, it is ful suspension enduro Fat Bike 29er vs hardtail 26er.

One thing I like is that the Hokas are pretty flat, so you can mid foot strike nicely.
Also they are so wide it's harder to roll an ankle than it looks. They're clumsy in really technical rocky bits though.

Which Salomon shoe is Hoka-like?

I read a review of Altras where someone actually cut the upper off a Hoka and attached an older Altra upper for a more roomy toe box. Good idea but it flopped.

I checked at Gord's Running Store in Calgary today re: when they would be getting other models. They don't have the Hoka Mafate 3 yet and didn't say when they would be getting it. They are ordering some New Balance Fresh Foam in February. They didn't have specific knowledge on pursuing the other brands (I'll have to check with Gord when he is in - I'm pretty sure he's the one who decides what to bring in) but the one salesman explained that the release dates I was seeing were for the U.S. and he was thinking more around March/April/May for getting them up here in Canada.

Picked up a Mafate 3 in 1/2 size larger, and they should work if I don't slide around too much on the downhills. I tried an Altra, but not the Olympus model- Pikes peak I think. Felt very comfy, and shaped like my foot instead of some shoe designers idea of a gracefully tapered hoof.
I can special- order the Olympus, but no returns, and it seems I'm between sizes.
FYI I bought a Mafate in 10.5, while I was between 9.5 and 10 in Altra.

Cool! I'm looking forward to getting a pair as soon as they are available in Calgary. I'm sure I'll need a couple more pairs of shoes this year anyway, given the training miles I'll be putting in for UTMB, but meanwhile both of my pairs of Mafate 2s are doing great (the treads still look really good) with about 500 and 600 km on each pair.

It's the "Lone Peak" you would've tried 'Bent..and I have noticed that the sizing on Altra shoes is inconsistent across models so please try on before you buy!

Unfortunately, he can't. The Olympus are only available around here on special order, and there are no returns. So hopefully some other ultrarunner will be interested in them if 'Bent ends up with the wrong size.

I ordered a size 10 Altra Olympus- will be here in April. I should be good for this season's ultras and training now.

If they're too big I'm sure I'll find a taker.

I have tried the road version of the NB fresh foam 980. I was impressed with how they felt, would be great for looooong distances but I still think I prefer the altras.

I got the Altra Olympus finally. Wow, talk about comfy! Really great room up front where my toes chafe in Hokas. Nice and cushy, but zero drop means efficient stride.

2 observations
1- They haver pretty light mesh on top with little reinforcement past the toe cap, so they'll need a bit of armouring on the sides of the forefoot (plasti-dip or Freesole) for hard trail use.
2- Tread is a bit skimpy for muddy trails. No knobbies, just some ridges.

Agree with Bent. I love the fit. My big and little toes rub in Hokas. No such issue with the square Altra toe boxes. Definitely slippery in mud. My only dislike is on severe downhills. Foot slides forward, and the thin stock laces cut into the front of my ankles. Other than that, fantastic shoe, great shoe line. Lone Peaks are my go-to. I'll be interested to see how the Olympus hold up. I've almost worn out my first pair of Lone Peaks in less than 2.5 months. Granted, they've been through 2 24s, an 18, and a 12 hr race plus training. Glue and stitching is coming apart in places.