Discussion: Wave 9

If you start there I'll wave as you go by!

For slush skis, you could probably grind an old pair of beaters, as you want an aggressive structure anyway.

Don't get beaters. Slush =/= rocks. Wish I had some way to help you fill in the gaps for the time being, but maybe Chris Hall can help you with skis as well as getting out of wave 9. Even if he can't talk you into the elite wave, starting from wave 2 was fine when I did it, just less fun than starting in the elite wave with the other people your speed.

Eh, I think I'm fine with the gaps right now, at least is better than last season when I only had Red and Purple, and even that seemed fine, but maybe that's just because there was never any snow...

And maybe Stephi has a pair I gave her, but can reclaim now and turn into either slush or green skis. Who knows if Zach will approve them for such purpose (might not have the right flex to be *those* types of skis), but maybe... slushy ski needs what sort of flex?

Wet and hardpack, or wet and slushy?

For slush skis my biggest concern with flex was getting something that wouldn't plow. I wanted a torsionally soft tip, and a soft action.

Hm, well I think the one I gave her that I might get back has a fairly stiff flex, might be pushable to wet + hardpack, but probably not for complete slush...

Stiff is a really course description of flex. You can have a stiff ski that still has a soft action, or you can have a stiff ski with a really discontinuous flex profile. I like to look at a ski through its collapse and see how quickly it comes down. A soft action ski will close with a constant pressure. That makes a good slush ski. Most good modern skis for harder conditions have a more discontinuous pressure closure. They have a residual camber up to a certain point, and then collapse completely. This is especially true in classic skis.
The torsional properties of skis is a frequently ignored property, because it is hard to measure and quantify. How the ski acts torsionally changes throughout its flex profile. Most modern skis are a complex composite structure, but can be thought of as a pair of stiff C-Channels on each side of the ski, with a soft weak structure joining them. As you press off each foot, each side of the ski reacts somewhat independently. A good hardtrack ski with have the tip and tail track the profile of the ski under the foot, thus a more tight coupling between each side of the ski. I think a good slush ski should have more independence between each side, and less stiffness down each side, so that the tip and tail can stay flatter to the snow, even as the ski under your foot twists.
Evaluating these properties on a set of skis without skiing on them is really hard. Especially as the tips and tails get narrower. A lot of it is determined by ski construction though, so you can get a general idea of how a ski will behave based on what mould it is, and what the layup is, ie the fischer 610 is known for certain properties, and you don't expect it to act like an 812.
Umm... maybe that was too many details.

You could say the same about O-shoes.

Zach in general dumped on the Peltonens we got at a great team discount. Any idea how they would categorize on torsional profile?

Like a 2x4.

hey now. I have one pair (out of six) that are decent - not much action, but good when the snow is bottomless. Either the cold falling deep stuff, or wet sloppy deep stuff. Not so good on hardpack where you want some torsional stiffness. Of course, Ken you've got some of the world's stiffest Peltonens, so they're not so good in bottomless slush, either...

My other five pair aren't really worth racing on, though I do occasionally, especially in ski-o.

The scary thing is, I can follow about 90% of what has been said here.

What properties in the 610? I think that's what the pair of mine Stephi has is...

Also, what are C-channels? didn't get that bit... =)

And yeah some of this seems overkill for ski-o, in which we just destroy our skis anyways, but these will only come out in really good conditions/for World Champs. And for straight-up ski races, like the Birkie/other marathons. How many pairs should come to Kazahkstan? Hmmm, probably all, and they just better not break them on airplanes!!

Greg would know best, but this year's races there were all on narrow trails, even the long. 30 km on narrow trails! So soft and not hard pack like a typical race course. Also very cold temps (0F).

C channels: think two C's facing each other. Lots of strength there. Tips tied together with thinner material to make it into a box. By changing the thickness of different pieces, you can alter the balance of up and down flex (lots of thickness on top and bottom), side to side flex (less focus on this, but depends on side thickness the most) and twisting or torsional rigidity (overall box shape). Best torsional rigidity comes from a round tube, but that makes a lousy ski bottom, so a square tube is a compromise and a rectangular one even more so. And it's got to be continuous all around the perimeter or torsional stiffness is lost. Very little strength for the weight comes from the core of the ski, that's why they're made from wood, foam or even paper honeycomb. Sorry, definitely too much info...

According to Sting, Love is the Seventh Wave :)

There is no deeper wave than this. Listen to me girl...