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Discussion: Rules

in: PG; PG > 2010-10-23

Oct 24, 2010 12:46 AM # 
JanetT:
I don't think the rules specifically address going back out after you finish but before downoad.

But once you've downloaded, and they tell you you've missed one, you can't go back out because that's considered assistance. Valerie made sure we had that in the meet notes last weekend. And I think that's the way it should be. As long as no one told you you had missed one and you figured it out yourself, I consider that allowable.
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Oct 24, 2010 7:06 AM # 
Jagge:
IOF rules: 26.9 Having crossed the finish line, a competitor may not re-enter the competition terrain without the permission of the organiser.
Oct 24, 2010 8:28 AM # 
O-ing:
What are rules for? To ensure fair play, so no-one gets an unfair advantage. If the rule book doesn't specifically address the situation (and presumably this wasn't an IOF event) then the spirit of the rules should apply. Was there any advantage to be gained in this case? Clearly not.
Oct 24, 2010 9:12 AM # 
Jagge:
I wonder what IOF rule is for. Is it for making it not too confusing for spectators, TV and for timing crew with foto cell finish and all? I guess you must draw line somewhere, they picked finish line instead of download. Download might have been better for spectators/TV, someone going back makes better drama than a cold disqualification .And no-one can get any advantage by doing it for sure. Maybe IOF rule just means you are not allowed to go back to forest to make warm down wothout asking persmission. It would make more sense. It that's what it means, the rule isn't clearly written.
Oct 24, 2010 10:00 AM # 
simmo:
Jagge, 26.9 is under Fair Play, and I think does as you say refer to not allowing competitors back into the forest for warm down (or to help their team-mate?). The really relevant rule about finishing is '23.1 The competition ends for a competitor when crossing the finish line.' So if you've crossed the finish line you can't go back out. '23.5 The finishing time shall be measured when the competitor's chest crosses the finish line or when the competitor punches at the finish line.' This appears to indicate that if you haven't punched the finish, and haven't physically crossed the line then you could go back out onto the course.

Both these rules are also in OA Rules, so would apply at an Australian event O-ing.
Oct 24, 2010 2:28 PM # 
Bash:
If someone were getting sticky about it, wouldn't it be necessary to go back to #7, then continue punching all the controls in sequence till the finish? Otherwise, if #7 were close to the finish, there could conceivably be an advantage in going #6 to #8, then saving #7 until just before the Go control.
Oct 24, 2010 4:51 PM # 
Canadian:
That's correct Bash. In this case #7 was the GO control.
Oct 24, 2010 4:54 PM # 
Bash:
Ah.
Oct 24, 2010 6:35 PM # 
bubo:
We´ve had this same discussion in Sweden and as far as I know the IOF rule applies here. But not all meet officials know about it and occasionally someone slips by their eyes and get out again after "finishing" and get an OK when downloading.

A long time ago (before e-punching) the H21 "winner" of an important Test or Elitserie race in Sweden went out on the course again after crossing the finish line (having missed or mispunched the last control). He was disqualified according to this rule...

A similar thing occured in a junior class a couple of years ago (with e-punching in effect) when a runner had punched the wrong last control. He went back out again (I don´t remember if someone actually told him he had punched the wrong control, but I think another competitor remarked on that) and still made it back in time to actually win the race! I don´t know what discussions were had or if protests were filed, but he got to keep his result.
Oct 24, 2010 10:10 PM # 
O-ing:
@simmo Those rules don't say "when crossing the finish line for the first time ". So if you really want to get pernickety about it someone could argue that the rule doesn't apply since they clearly crossed the finish the second time. My view is that the spirit of the rules should be taken into account when looking at debatable situations.
Oct 25, 2010 2:56 AM # 
JanetT:
Found this in the USOF Rules:

"37.6 Once competitors cross the finish line their competition is over, and they shall not return to the competition area without permission from the organizer."

So I guess I was wrong. If you realize you missed something before you hit finish you can go back and correct it. Good to remember.
Oct 25, 2010 10:45 PM # 
eldersmith:
I assume that IOF rule 23.1 is not intended to cover a case like that of Andrew Childs in the red-X final, where he decided that a perfectly reasonable route choice from 12 to 13 was on trails well to the south of the straight line, backwards through the finish chute?! No question but that his chest passed the finish line, but he was definitely going very fast in the opposite direction from others passing the finish line, had absolutely no intention of stopping there until the next time through, and he ended up with the second fastest time for the day on the course (though the AP splits analysis suggests that he actually lost a bit of time on that leg relative to the competition).

This discussion thread is closed.