Discussion: Expedition Oregon 2021

Getting fired up for dot watching! Woot!

Would love to know who is going, and if there are any collateral materials to share!

I don't know of many APers who are going, Cliff? Abby? Sorry about who I am missing! Can't wait!

Here is the web site: https://www.americastoughestrace.com/?fbclid=IwAR3...

Maybe they rebranded and it's new?

So excited to follow along! Strongmachine is on Strong Machine, abiperk and Garrison are on Rootstock. Isn't someone from MRC on AP somewhere?

I think technically Mark Lattanzi is on AP, too :)

Abiperk, any intel to share?

We are stoked to be back out racing, especially at this event. The MRC / Mac Parkman Foundation team will be comprised of Rachel Furman (Rocky33), Olof Hedberg, Melissa Coombes, and myself.

NICE! Any pre race information?

This is about all we know so far:

Prologue: Trekking (2.5 miles/1000’ gain)

Stage 1: Packraft (60 miles/0’gain)

Stage 2: Mountain bike (80 miles/15,000’ gain)

Stage 3: Packraft-Trek (38 miles/4500’ gain)

Stage 4: Mountain bike (50 miles/6000’ gain)

Stage 5: Orienteering Trek (8 miles/3500’ gain)

Stage 6: Trek (16 miles/3500’gain)

Stage 7: Bike-raft (35 miles/1500’ gain)

Holy smokes. Not a lot of intel!

Have a great race, everybody! We’ll be watching.

Overview: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Lx0XGDpowy...

Teams just got that Sunday, right? Must be a frantic last few days of packing and prepping.

Yes.

SleepMonsters article:
https://www.sleepmonsters.com/races.php?article_id...

Mari joined the team in early April. But that should worry no one. She is so very strong all around.

Geez - sounds like they've gotten stronger. Vidaraid is the clear favorite regardless of how you slice it. From there, it seems really murky. Anyone have any predictions on a top 5/10?

Vidaraid, and then a toss up for 2nd - 5th positions. Without over analyzing, who is where; Good -Nuff, MRC/Bluelight, Checkpoint Zero, Tanz Navigation? Since it's been a while for everyone, I suspect a darkhorse team to round out the top 5.

Is JayXC racing? Didn't see him on a roster...If so, I'd put his team near the front as well.

Heard they got maps 4p local time. Don't know if that's typical. Good Nuff lost Richard Sparks (one of the guys that was part of the Sea to Sea win). I think Rootstock has a chance in that they have kept up with training. Tanz is down to a 3p.

I like CP0 (anyone know who their 4th is?), MRC, Rootstock. Like bugeater suggests, I expect a dark horse to join those 4. Maybe the Bend 3F/1M team? Seems like they might have an...inside advantage.

7a local time start. Posted the prologue and overview map on dot watchers. And, no contour lines on the overview.

Glewis they picked up a guy from CA. Not sure who.

Overview made it look easy ;). Where are your getting you info W4J?

Great to see some real racing happening again! Withdrawals over here after GodZone.

My application to join Dotwatchers Unite FB group has been ignored for months. Can anyone here help a guy out?

Is there a tracking link somewhere? There are surprisingly few things to click on the race website.

Haven't seen link anywhere. I suspect they put on up as soon as it officially starts.

Conman, it looks like the Admin is Brian Gatens. Do you have contact info?

Tracking is here: live.enabledtracking.com/xpdor21/

Expected to be live at 7:15AM local time

Conman, I emailed the moderator of dotwatchers for you.

Hi everyone:)

Broots!! Any inside info from the team that you want to share?

Nope;)

In all seriousness, I don't think I have much to offer. Abby is projecting they think they will finish middle of the night on Saturday/Sunday. Sounds like Vidaraid is thinking late morning-early afternoon (I think that is what she said) on Saturday, so that all seems to make sense.

Sounds like some water bunnies say they are bummed the opening river isn't more challenging (I gather it's long and fast but not too aggressive in regards to the whitewater).

I think the interesting wrinkles are:
1) how fit are the teams? I know in two races this year, we have not collectively felt race-fit. I think that is probably true of most teams.
2) So many teams are racing with new faces. How will team dynamics impact everyone?
3) Oregon is always more technical, so slower performances for some teams, perhaps, and maybe a bit more parity. And it opens the door to some teams who you might not normally expect up top to finish well.

And, since people are making predictions, I'll add my two cents, first breaking some of the teams into three groups.

1) The Favorite: Vidaraid. I don't think anyone will keep it close enough to push them to the end, BUT, as noted above, a couple teams could pending on the technical.

2) The chase pack: CP0, Ecuador, Journey/Bend, MRC, Rootstock. Alphabetical, not my prediction of finish order.

3) Dark horses who could slip into the top five: Blue Jay (I actually don't know anything about this team, but I have seen their name pop up several times, so who knows), NYARA (this team has the technical side DOWN; and loads of experience; they are the team I think might benefit the most from the style of race), Recharge Bend (again, I don't know anything, but I think they are local, they have high aspirations, and I think they have been mentored by the Bend crew...so, IF they also have the training, nav, and technical experience, maybe?), Strong Machine (they have upped their game and are building experience, so I think they are a team who could shake it up)...as always, there are going to be a couple of others. Some teams like Norcal, Castelli, have the experience. Good Nuff won Sea2Sea, but I think losing Richard was a big blow. Still, they might be there too. And I'm sure there are one or two teams I've never heard of...

OK, predictions:
1) Vidaraid.
2) Ecuador. Strong athletes and Dusty is a machine and excellent navigator. Brings some local flavor and experience at this race to the fold. My hesitation here is that the top Ecuadorian teams don't always perform as well outside of Ecuador, I have heard one of the teammates may be less experienced, and Dusty is new to the team. But, I'll go with them.
3) Journey/Bend. IF they nav well (and I don't know anything about whether they can), I believe Chelsea's local knowledge will give them a major edge. Maybe enough to elevate to 2nd. If they don't nav well, I would drop them down.
4) CP0. A bit more continuity than some teams have will pay dividends. Loads of experience and great navigators.
5) MRC. Close call between them and CP0. Always is a good battle.

Where dost thou rank Rootstock, you ask?

:)

I'm not including them on principle. Bias and all, you know. But I think they will do well. They do have some question marks: This grouping has never raced an XPD together, for example. Our #1 strength is, I would say, our team experience and such, and this team is less experienced as a unit than a RR team has been in well over a decade. I expect they will be OK, but there may be some bumps along the road. I might have a few other thoughts, but I'll save them . I will say, I do see them in the top five, but we aren't a team that focuses on such things too much ahead of time and prefer to race the race and the course rather than focus on other teams. So, in that spirit, I'll leave us out of it and reserve the actual placing I would give them:)

The tracking has gone live. Hit refresh if you still have the login prompt that was active for the last hour or two.

Alright, alright, alright....let's get this rolling....Good luck to all.

Looking forward to following along.
Armchair navigators: what is your prologue route choice? A-B-C? C-B-A?

I like the look of CBA personally.

ABC...C's the hardest point to locate and the the route from B to C seems to provide the most reliable handrail.

Interesting takes Broots. I think that team composition will be key for this race; so many teams (top ones too) have changed over the last month and experience is lacking all around.

C-A-B. Seems easiest to attack C from the road/creek intersection. If you go B to A, there is potential to go down the incorrect re-entrant. I also prefer to ascend steep technical terrain rather than descend it.

I'm on Team ABC.

A bunch of teams skipped the prologue, giving up a full point off the bat. This group includes Blue Jays.

So, unless they are brilliant strategists and know something none of the other top teams do, I don't think they will be in the dark horse crew as proposed. Like I said, saw their names pop up a bunch. I THINK they are a local team. They may still have a great race, but notable they made this decision off the bat.

Leaderboard shows most teams hitting C first. Good Nuff went up to A. Some teams not updating yet.

The BIG question is:
Do you skip B right now. I haven't looked closely to consider if that would make sense in conjunction with the rogaine. Curious to see how many teams elect to clear this section off the bat.

I know it's a bigger climb, and I know it means giving up daylight. I wonder if getting it allows the chaos to clear out at TA and on the initial stretch of river however? I think there is something nice about letting others go sometimes and get "ahead" a bit.

And then it's the question of what you don't have to do on the rogaine...That's the deciding factor of course...Anyone analyzed that question yet?

Can't trust leaderboard...the geofence for CP C is probably snagging teams that travel past the point on the road headed for CP A.

And GOALS and O-Utah are going for it...no top teams who are tracking seem to be?

Good point, Conman.

Ecuador is heading up after bagging A

I'm in the camp of getting points while you can - would rather have that pro point now and be able to drop later. It makes more sense to hit the elevation and then rest in the boats for 60 miles. Wonder what the time difference is between getting AC and ABC.

Looking like most teams are on the way up to B

Note that the race maps don't show the road/trail that the online maps DO show, leading straight back from A to the 180 degree turn in Forest Road 10 just below C. If that's a sign of things to come, there may be a LOT of trails out there on the ground that aren't on the race maps.

Figuring out which teams have bagged O' CPs and how many will be nigh impossible unless someone (looking at Mark Harris, here) is putting up the data manually after each O' section. He did this for Sea-to-Sea, but it's not a speedy process. That said, with everyone on the massive paddle at the same time (this will happen before noon today), he should be able to get the "official" info for A-C entered early on. It may be harder to keep on top of this for the later O' sections as teams will be spread out and some with fewer points may still be ahead of those with aspirations for clearing the course.

Looks like (pending more tracker updates) Journey/Bend Racing is the first team on the water after tackling the Prologue O' course.

and...there's Vidaraid out in front of Journey/Bend with the same time stamp.....

And of course, my guys decided to stay on the bus...sigh...

Goals is going for all the pro points, until they don’t! :).

MAPS!
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/1IQ9bpW...

The advice for viewing is as follows: only try to open the maps that are larger than 1MB in size. Alternatively, sort them by name and ignore the files that start with syntax instead of "EO"

Stage Descriptions:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tZJ2xV1D6Jasys...

So, early on:

Strng Machine hanging on outside the top five. Great start. MRC the big surprise. If the tracking is accurate, they are a ways off the leaders. The less experienced Bend team is off to a nice start as well.

Just looked a bit more closely...it LOOKS like MRC is tracking alright...so. I wonder if they have an issue with a packraft or something. Really surprised at how far back in the field they are.

Based on FB pics it seems like Mel and Rachel swam a rapid, wondering if that is part of the reason for the slow movement from MRC.

It was posted somewhere that the staff at CP1 is checking tracker placement. I’m guessing a raft of this length tandem boats may be preferable? However, would shorter lengths be better to have solo?

Finally. RR is live. Through CP1. Good night dotwatchers.

Glad they and others have lit up. Look at them going off the beaten path! Good stuff.

Good Nuff is having a great first 24 hours. Vidaraid already building a controllable lead. Good battle for second right now b/w Bend and Ecuador. And the less experienced Bend team is doing really well as well!

Oopss...Broots here...on abiperk's computer....though knowing her, she is planning what she will say on AP right now as she hauls up these mountains...

Small detour just around 1am for Vidaraid before bagging CP4. I wonder if they were sightseeing over on that North dome or if they got disoriented? The detour was enough to allow others to close the gap considerably. We now have a real race again.

It also appears that the Western route to CP4 is considerably faster than the Eastern one. Haven't checked splits, but perhaps 1 hours quicker for these lead teams?

Looks like MRC is making a bit of a comeback here - maybe a leaky boat yesterday?

Also looks like Venture is the victim of the first real nav error - will they turn around soon?

Hoping SM is able to keep contact with the group in front, even if they can't see them. Look to be around 9th now.

I've seen that as well Conman - I wonder what the quality of the road was like - that climb seemed to zap teams.

Venture is doubling back. Another team had the same issue but caught it a lot earlier.

Does anyone know of a way to view all teams tails at once? I have always struggled to do this with the Enabled Tracking system.

Routing through Danville is a popular choice. I read somewhere it would take people 5m out of their way? Seems to be the only town on the course.

glewis: Pretty sure tails aren't an option with this tracking setup. I bet it's an option in the software, but that it isn't enabled for this event...or for past events, iirc. I find it valuable when it is available. Maybe send a message to Mark Harris and see if it's just something he hasn't turned on in the system config.

I believe if you click on a team and then click on 'more' you can see tails for one team.

It seems like the tails for single teams are hit and miss now - I couldn't get them earlier this morning. I will ask Mark about tails for multiple teams at once though.

To reiterate what I noted earlier: MRC are FLYING on this bike leg. They are on pace to be back in the top 5 by the time they get to TA. Remarkable.

GLewis, Agreed. MRC has really picked it up. TanZ have picked up the pace too. I think TanZ may have napped a little bit before sunrise between CP 3 and 4. I see both of those teams moving up a few notches over the next 24 hours.

Is CP0 taking a shortcut to get from CP8 to CP9 or bailing on CP9? Time will tell!

Just logging on to ask the same conman. A VERY quick look at Topo and satellite on the tracking page reveals nothing. I’m thinking Peter figured something sneaky out. Seem to be heading to that track nearly due south that seems to be running north toward them?

Check that. Zoomed in a bit more and there are tracks on the Topo setting...

Jeep trails...on old topo maps...unreliable at best as a "path"

Bend Recharge just made it HAPPEN. I think it was the right idea but CP0 maybe took a wrong turn or tried something off the maps that might not pay off. But Bend is now riding up the trail to the CP. They will pass the other Bend team who may be a bit surprised. Huge move, I think if they can ride up to 9 without much delay. I hope abiperk and the crew do the same...says abiperk...aka, Broots...

Not sure if the end of the monster bike moves faster, or if Vidaraid is commanding a greater lead. Go Mari go! She shared that a lot of this race could be pretty technical from her experience in the area.

Broots - I see a jeep trail on the tracker but no sign of it elsewhere - did Recharge take that? Is Peter taking a bikewhack right to 9? Super interesting section.

If you set it for the ESRI Topo setting, you can see what they did: Mascall Jeep Track. CP0 went off that route for some reason thinking they may have gotten onto some unmapped tracks. Recharge took a longer route which allowed them to catch all the way up to third. I'm BUMMED to see RR dropping onto the drawn in route. I think they will lose contact with the top 5 as a result. (unless CP0 really struggles to get to the CP). If either of the teams right behind them figure it out, they will leapfrog RR and have a shot to catch up to 5th as Recharge did to 3rd.

MRC might climb into 6th place. Incredible section for them. Wonder how much they are burning catching up. Lots of race left

I guess they would have had to draw in that jeep track pre-race? Interesting that so many teams are doing it now.

Mark Harris posted the maps on our page. Looks like teams rode overland to start.

It's only mid afternoon but teams are getting tired out there! SM seems to have bobbled 6. And Tower has made a meal of 7. Hoping these teams get their heads back and make it into TA to get some sleep tonight!

Saw that visa raid was 3 hours behind the fast estimate

Teams are going to run low/out of food

Meanwhile in Dayville, the race took it's first. A team called for a bailout from the pie shop.

Trek stage description points out that there is a surprise food supply for racers at CP17.

Looks like TanZ and NYARA have skipped 2 pro points. No Complaints just made the same choice as well. Tower may be doing the same after their struggles earlier.

EDIT: No Complaints is NOT dropping off the pro course, but rather taking the fast roads around. Major time savings.

MRC seems to be off track there as well. Seem to be following the creek out to the west. Broots - I saw the post on FB. My understanding now is that teams probably planned on bikewhacking the spur south and found the jeep trail. Major move if they plan it right.

Watching this bike leg is getting a little agonizing. It's already slow-going but then the slow-pinging (if they ping at all) trackers make it even more brutal for a dot-watcher!

Hoping the SM crew might get on the roads out and around. We are speculating they are having some kind of gear or health issue with how slow they've gotten lately

Any guesses on what is happening with Good Nuff?

Afternoon shade to hide from the heat in that saddle with a short kip is my guess.

Ok, now that I looked again, they're moving. So, maybe they're just lost.

ouch W4J - just noticed that. Thinking that they are just a wee bit exhausted. Some of the pictures on FB make it look hot. Probably low on food too.

That western route is looking pretty awful. Quite a morale killer.

Looks like CP0 is following the wrong spur down to CP11. wonder how quickly they'll correct

I suspect darkness and fatigue are really going to start showing up on this trek, which has several technical CPs to navigate combined with lots of criscrossing tracks of varying quality with only some of them actually shown on the race maps...just to throw teams off the hunt even more. Look for a bunch of teams to spend time "off-track" and hunting for CPs thru the night.

Brutal stage 2 is over for RR and SM. Seem to be sleeping well in TA.

GoodNuff is going on 30 hours now:(

MRC keeps moving up. But I wonder how much energy they burned? Should be a good battle for 2-5.

And looking at teams like Nyara and Tanz, wondering if teams like Rr and SM and no complaints hurt themselves long term staying pro. Obviously, they had the time and chances to come out of it well, but it might bite them at the end. Really don’t have a gauge for what is left though. Havent analyzed time estimates...

Vidaraid is making things look easy. When will they sleep? Also, I met a couple of the Ecuador team in Paraguay. They are strong, but Vidaraid has opened such a lead. Can’t get bread crumbs to extrapolate their times and apply backward. Also, on another note, I can’t seem to get the app to work as well as the mobile browser.

Looks like sleep is the name of the game at this hour for those last few teams on the Pro course. Hope they can get themselves refocused and moving without burning too many hours in TA. I imagine that SM got more out of the CP9 party than RR - they suffered greatly and somehow made up time. They will have a nice battle starting soon. Seems like the nav is tricky throughout the trek to the river, starting with that first point - looks like Natural Selection and Lost Boys are following the same route that CP0 took.

MRC may be burning too many matches, but I'm curious if they might have napped yesterday evening. They spent some time trailside after 10.

Wondering when CP0 stops to sleep. They aren't exactly spiking the CPs, and now would be the perfect time to bed down and wake up with the sun.

Looks like GOALS struggled with 7 (not the only team!) and made the smart decision to head down to 10. Hope Bruce keeps them all trucking forward!

Kudos to O-Utah for pushing on with the Pro Course - hope they reward themselves with a wonderful sleep, but the timing into TA seems suboptimal, as they'll be arriving aright as the sun rises.

It looks like Good Nuff is FINALLY into TA1. They need some sleep in the worst way possible. They don't have legs like this in triathlon...

Excited for day 3!! From my perspective this packraft leg seems to be the most fun of the race. Teams will need to be clean and efficient to stay on the pro course.

W4J - I downloaded the app as well and was immediately disappointed. I struggled with breadcrumbs disappearing on my laptop but found that refreshing the page got them back.

It took Vidaraid from TA2 to CP17 about 8ish hours. Then 17 to 19 took 4.5h. And possibly about halfway through the second trek of this leg at a fewish hours. The Course overview said fast teams would do it in 14. I would guess they are taking doing it in 15ish, and also guessing no sleep. Thanks glewis! Oh and you had asked about Jolles' 4th? He told me--we talked when they were looking for a teammate.

Looks likes teams must be through CP17 by 6PM local time tonight. After that, the next cutoff is to be off the o-course by 10PM and leave TA5 by midnight (it sounds like that will most likely be too late for the race cutoff though).

EDIT: I've been told that the CP17 cutoff is not a race cutoff but rather the cutoff to get hot food. Honestly, it sounds even more important now!

Are there any actual cutoffs?

FB update from RR;)

"Well, sounds like there is an injury on the team that slowed them down on leg 2. Everyone is fine, but Abby hurt her hand and the team is weighing whether/how to continue.
In the grand scheme of things, nothing serious, but a bum hand in a race this technical might be too much to overcome considering what they have left to do. Sounds like it significantly impacted their biking on Stage 2.
We'll see. Sounds like they are up and debating. As they always say...adventure racing. Sometimes with elation. Sometimes with a sigh..."

And Strong Machine is up and moving! Go Strong Machine!

The o-course cutoff is on the spreadsheet, but they also mentioned how if you cut it close you'll miss the finish.

Broots - sorry to hear about that. Hope they try to keep going.

And SM is looking good so far - hope they nail it and hold off Good Nuff, who seem to be moving as well.

Feel good about SM here against GN. GN spent a lot more time out there on Stage 2 and didn't stop for long. SM got hours of sleep. Suspect that will pay dividends later on...

Good Nuff has struggled with 11 thus far. And good news - RR is moving on the trek!! Hope Abby is handling the hand, Nicki is handling the tiredness, Jesse is handling huge amounts of gear (I presume), and Garrison is handling a map or two. Would love to see them push on strong here.

Moving well so far. LONG sleep, so major advantage on a number of teams ahead. Now it’s a question of whether they can nail strategy and nav and whether Abby’s hand is good enough not to hamper the bike. And a question of how much they have to skip now (if they have to skip)

The trek is moving along nicely for most teams. CP0 had some fun at a few points but have gotten themselves on the road to CP17. Despite the lack of sleep MRC are still moving well with no issues thus far. Castelli has been mostly smooth (anyone know anything about them?), and the same for No Complaints. Strong Machine are trucking along as well very cleanly. Further back, Rootstock seems to have caught up to and passed Good Nuff, which is great for them all considering. Probably a tad bit too far back to see SM on the trek.

And if anyone has a clue what Venture is doing, I'd love to find out! Maybe they are planning to walk to Prineville? Hope they get their bearings soon!

What I can't get out of my head is...will Vidaraid sleep???? Or is it possible they had a trail side nap on the packraft trek?

Vidaraid stopped at TA3 for about 2 hours. That's probably a 1.5+ hour sleep in addition to transition time.

Historically, they dont sleep much either...

Looks like Venture has a joiner in a new direction. So if Vidaraid slept a bit there, I bet they will have a smidge of shuteye before the o course—and then push?

I bet that Vidaraid hits the O' course during daylight, even if that means sleeping after it's done. I know from past races that O' courses in the dark have haunted Marco and Urtzi.

O-Utah has just about caught Good'Nuff using pinpoint navigation. Wonder if either team realizes the others are so near by?

SM, RR, and NC are showing why strategic big sleeps matter. Granted, I think they were longer sleeps than normal, BUT: compared to Castelli and other teams ahead of them, they are taking off big chunks of time every cp. if they keep nailing nav, they are going to climb much of the way back. I don’t think they get back to CP0’s wake, but then again...I think RR and SM may have slept 6ish hours each, more than I ever have. Will be interesting to see how that impacts the next 24-36 hours!

NC has caught up to Castelli.

Hoping RR can get to CP17 for hot food. ...

Are they carrying rafting gear right now. Or do they get it at 17? Assuming there is road access there due to the hot food? Going to look at maps now...

They pick up their paddle gear at CP17 and then carry it all the way to TA3.

Thanks Conman!!

SM is on the water and moving very quickly. Like Broots mentioned earlier, that sleep is paying massive dividends. RR is also moving well and appears set to just make the hot meal cutoff. Good Nuff seemed to have tagged along with O-Utah but have since gone off course again, allowing O-Utah to get ahead.

In response to some conversation on day 1...

Apparently MRC had what they called a "packraft blowout" on the opening paddle. Not sure how they handled it or fixed it, but it makes sense that they've been a bit slower than expected on this current paddle. Tough to do a full repair midrace.

From a question up above Castelli are regular racers in the pacific northwest. 2 from Seattle and 2 from Portland. They are great people and strong, the 2 from portland (mike and sherri) are good bikers and the 2 from Seattle have more running / paddle background including some amazing kayak expedition around vancouver island, ect.

So now the question is, how many can reasonably expect to get full course? I am looking ahead wondering how teams can best optimize pro points with full course points. Guessing it’s a big point of discussion for some of the current pro racers.

Anyone know what time the finish line cutoff is?

I’m thinking SM has a chance depending on the finish. BUT...the course estimates suggest 24 hours for stage 4-onwards, for the fast estimate...which have generally been faster than Vidaraid. If the finish is, say, early afternoon, SM might have a chance with 12ish hours of buffer.

I don’t think anyone behind them does though.

And my gut is that the fast times aren’t worth a lot and that SM might need to strategically drop something(s). Fast times tend not to take into account sleep dep and slowing paces. And the 24 hours doesn’t include TAs...

I thought I had read that the cutoff was noon on Sunday, but I cannot find that anywhere. The RD has indicated that the pace will be quicker from TA3 onwards, so that work in their favor. I also think SM may make it, but it's impossible to tell now, as a majority of the trackers between CP17 and TA3 have lost signal. The only guarantee in that area in regards to PRO teams is that MRC are still in TA most likely having a well deserved sleep and that SM are most likely still there as well. They banked loads of sleep last night, so it will be interesting to see if their dot comes alight out of TA soon.

Actually, it looks like RR has climbed out the riverbed, which is pretty clearly spelled out as a no-no on the maps. Wonder what is going on. They have spent a long time in that creek.

I did read some commentary on the Bend FB page that the water levels are very low in that section and that in particular tandem rafts are slowing some teams down.

I have a memory of Cliff saying the course closes at 4pm, that it had been noon but they extended it. I can’t find it written anywhere though. Yes I was wondering about Rootstock too and why they are out of the creek. Hope they are okay.

Mark Harris confirmed a 4PM finish.

I'm trying hard to figure out what RR is doing as well broots. Lots of possibilities, but I can't understand the move to leave the river early and then come back to get CP20. My heart is breaking for them.

Looking at the teams still likely to finish the PRO course...

Vidaraid is on the bikerafting section - they are putting on a clinic! Expect them to finish mid-afternoon local time.
Journey is off the o-course and trekking towards the reservoir. They seem to be far enough ahead to be caught barring a terrible error.
Recharge and 4Regions are doing the o-course in opposite directions. Whoever gets off first will have a clear advantage on the final 2 legs. I haven't been watching this battle closely enough to know who might have a leg up hear, but someone else may.
CP0 has pulled into TA4 to start the o course. It would be tough for them to get into 4th place, but even tougher to fall out of 5th.

I haven't tracked any sleep for places 2-5, but I'm guessing that they are close enough to push and finish regardless.

MRC took a big rest (as far as I can tell) at TA3 before starting the bike leg. They are moving well enough, but not nearly as quickly as leg 2. We will learn today if they burnt themselves too low on the 2nd day.
Strong Machine took another nap at TA3 - about an hour - before heading out on bikes. They are moving well. Super proud of them sticking with the slow and steady approach! Hard to tell for sure, but they have gained ground on MRC and are actually ahead on sleep. Both of these teams should be able to finish tomorrow with some time to spare and without another rest.
Castelli took a big rest and are also out on the bike. As mhayz mentioned above, they will be strong in this discipline and are going to push SM. They will also, most likely, not need more rest.
No Complaints are victims of a faulty tracker it seems. They disappear for hours and then pop up further along the course. If they are in fact on bikes they have a good chance to finish as well.
RR seems to be making their way to TA3 by way of some CPs.
O-Utah are out the packrafts and making their way to TA3 as well. Not sure what their sleep situation is, but they are cutting it very close - my gut says they drop a PRO point.
Good Nuff hasn't pinged for a while, but are shown still at CP17. They have been suffering mightily since Thursday. They will need to drop points.

Also to keep in mind - TanZ may leap a number of these teams. They have only dropped one PRO point and are moving well with more total CPs.

...whats up with Castelli? Tracker error or nav error?

Also thanks for the summary glewis! According to the RDs the “tough” part is over. So you know, everyone should be just fine from here :)

Just came here to see if someone knows what happened to Castelli. The tracker most definitely pinged on the bike ride a few times, and they (or the tracker) are definitely at the TA...

Update on some of the ?? teams from RD Jason:
Jason here - Just wanted to update everyone on the teams that are being affected by know injuries/medical issues. Team 19 (Backcountry) withdrew thursday night with a member suffering from severe dehydration, exhaustion, nausea. She was having trouble walking and could not stay on her bike. They were able to make it part way down from CP 8 where they met with medical team and were taken back the the TA for assessment. She is recovering well. Team 8 (Good-Nuff) had member Dylan Andrews lacerate his calf on Stage 3 hiking up a steep ridge. He continued to CP17 (his team treated him), where he was assessed and driven into the Prineville hospital. He received 18 staples. Today he is up and walking and eager to get back on his bike. His team rested up and is continuing as 3. Team 5 (Rootstock) Abby Perkis has injured her hand (thumb area) but is continuing to race. It is extremely swollen and her team is considering short coursing themselves and riding from TA 3 to the finish line where she can seek treatment. The most challenging issue was the missing Team 32 but we'll tell that in another post. We are keeping are fingers crossed for a healthy finish for the remainder of the teams still on course.
W

Would love it if they let us know what the penalties will be. A borrowed skewer, an illegal route, and a missing tracker have to warrant at least an hour each, no?

Also, Castelli seems to have left the tracker (the yellowbrick, it appears) with their paddling gear at TA3. They recovered it upon arrival at TA4. I presume they still carried their cellular tracker. Anyway, "their" track from TA3 to TA4 may just be the equipment truck's track. I presume there will a time penalty for proceeding without mandatory equipment.

I saw somewhere that the penalty time for someone (Ecuador maybe?) is 2 hours to be served at the last CP before the finish (top of the bike abseil).

Broots just posted that it appears that RR is heading to Prineville perhaps. I’ll let him elaborate but this has left me wondering...we are approaching Saturday night and there are teams still really at it. Can’t help but wonder what will happen? My guess is that they will be directed to bike straight to Prineville. Any intel? My bestie is on Goals ARA and thinking of her so often.

I just read that Conman - I have to imagine that 2 hours is a minimum for each of those infractions (including MRC having to borrow a rear skewer from a volunteer).

W4J - GOALS has been working so hard. I hope that teams are given a route to bike to the finish as well. It seems that the RDs let the back set of teams linger on the earlier sections a bit too long and now they have some work to do to get them back safely and under their own power. Personally, I would be frustrated if I had made all of the mandatory cutoffs thus far but was forced to take a vehicle to the finish.

What the heck happened with the bike abseil for Vidaraid? It sure looks like a bunch of fiddling near the top, then an exit down the spur instead of hanging from ropes down to the water.

I hope that a car ride to the finish isn’t how it ends, too much of a reminder of S2S. I agree with your assessment of the RD responsibility.

Looks like Goals, Good Nuff and Onyx are a party of 3 going rogue? Can’t tell what they are doing!

And Vidaraid wins!

My guess is that GN, GOALS and Onyx are doing whatever they can to get home under their own power - maybe grabbing a few CPs for the fun of it. My guess is that they get to TA3 and then ride as fast as they can forward on the course.

Who will make it to the finish? With a 4pm cutoff tomorrow (22.5 hours from now), some teams are going to be cutting it very close. Vidaraid took about 18 hours to get to the finish after they started stage 6 (after the O-course.) It seems like teams are taking about 6 hours to do the O-Course. I don't think any team starting the O-course now will make it. I think TanZ and Castelli will have to push hard to do in 22.5 hours what Vidaraid did in 18 hours (they have been racing for an extra day.) MRC may be cutting it really close if they have more than an hour penalty. Strong Machine and No Complaints are in a really tough spot. On fresh legs, I'm sure they could do it, but it seems unlikely at this point. It will be exciting to watch them try.

Checkpoint Zero is gaining ground on Ecuador and Recharge/Bend. This could be a close battle for 3rd.

Just heard from Mari, slept 2.5h on the course and NO FOOD AT THE END. A friends mom ran and got her ice cream.

Fuzzy - only thing to consider there is that Vidaraid slept for a bit on the trek. I think that it's doable if they get out of the o-course before midnight local time.

Not sure what's actually happening with NC and SM, but we're assuming (hoping?) that our guys are about halfway through the o right now.

W4J - Food at the end is a must. There was once a race where we finished the full course so early that we had to order pizza from a local place and book our own hotel room. Hmm...

I have been lurking these updates and thx everyone for keeping such good track of teams and great BTS commentary. I just feel the need to comment about NO FOOD AT THE FINISH LINE. When we finished Cowboy Tough one year, there was food at the finish but due to my alpha gal allergy I could only eat the dinner roll. I cried. Kudos to the Vidaraid fans for helping the team out!

Find myself stunned to hear there's no local food sponsor or just race provided food for finishers. Ouch. This shows how hard it is to direct a race of this magnitude...there are SO MANY details to wrangle and then there's the unexpected issues that arise during the race to add on top of all of the expected needs.

And, it’s not like they don’t know they are coming? Said they wanted to wait until there are more people to have food. My guess is find out what they want at their last TA and pick it up. Most of us are pretty easy to please after that kind of time in the wilderness. Big thoughts to those who have food allergies!

Silky - Casper, Wyoming is a food desert both in terms of what can grow there (almost nothing) and what is available from the local eateries (primarily meat, potatoes, and iceberg lettuce). I sympathize completely with your food issues at that CBT race. I am vegetarian and allergic to dairy, so was not able to eat any of the food provided by race sponsors or at any of the banquets over five years of volunteering...I couldn't even eat the rolls b/c they were made with milk or butter.

I think your point is that providing food is difficult because some racers won't or can't eat whatever you provide due to dietary choices or restrictions. Yet another aspect of of being an RD that makes it really hard to cover all the bases.

Looks like teams once on the bike are heading back after TA 3.

Conman, yes you know exactly! I was mostly remembering how gobsmacked I was emotionally at the end of a multi day race and a small thing like eating “just” a roll really undid me. Emotions are so tough at the finish in normal circumstances and to pile anything else on top of that is hard for racers/teams. And that extends to the RD team as well - everyone is tired after managing stress that long. Let’s hope there is a quick, highly caloric solution on the way!

CP0 and NorCal appear to be travelling together and they've both just aimed off from CP 36. Hope they correct soon, both before it get's darker and before they lose too much to following or leading teams. Seems like a very featureless area to find your position if you've gotten "lost".

broots...know you're likely sleeping, but...your wife will be calling soon. Rootstock just reached the finish line by taking the short route straight (via two CPs that happened to be along the way) from TA3 to the finish. Seems like they did it under their own power. Look forward to hearing all about their adventure.

Greetings from Prineville everyone! Broots isn't answering his phone, so I'll post a quick update here instead :) - all good here for the Rootstock crew. I took a hard fall on the bike just after CP8 and haven't been able to move or bear weight on my thumb since. So, we broke down my bike and my awesome teammates each strapped a piece to their packs (two tires and the frame), and I ran from CP8-10, where we rebuilt the bike and made our way into TA. Other than that stretch, my thumb itself didn't slow us down too much, but the injury had reverberations for other decisions we made, energy levels, etc...., and so we basically stopped racing at that point and started adventuring.

Re: CP19, we didn't bring our helmets on the trek because we weren't planning on paddling (because of my thumb), but hadn't thought to read the rules for that section before we left. We arrived at CP17 and discovered that we needed to stay within the high water line. After an hour of troubleshooting, we decided that Nicki, Jesse, and I would do a creek trek and Garrison - in his climbing helmet - would lash the boats together and paddle them both (a frustrating several hours given water levels). At the point where we ascended upward toward what we thought was the CP, there was a fence going across the river with a sign on it that said it was a national forest boundary - which was marked on our maps at the CP. We only had a few hundred meters on our maps beyond that point so we didn't want to go any further and risk going off the map. Long story that we're still trying to sort out, but it sounds like the fence was just set up in the last couple days - it hadn't been there when Jason and Dan set the course last weekend. We discovered our mistake at CP20 after two hours of shivering in our bothy. When the sun came up, we were able to line up the land with the map. By that point, though, we knew that we weren't going to be able to stay on the mandatory course, so we just kept moving toward TA3, and made the decision to ride back to Prineville on our own power (on a beautiful and fast route, far too civilized for "America's Toughest Race").

We're all in good spirits and excited to swap stories with everyone else when they cross the line tomorrow!

Oh, and Jason M greeted us at the courthouse with shots of whiskey and a pizza, so I think they've sorted out the finish line food :)

Abiperk! Shouldn't you be sleeping...or eating a horse...or sleeping? Just had to get that out there. Now I'll go back and read your post. ;)

We're all currently lying in bed, eating ice cream and catching up on the race coverage - adrenaline should start to dwindle soon :)

Thanks for filling in the details, abiperk. Glad everyone is doing okay, and certainly hope that your thumb & hand heal up quickly. Would recommend seeing a Dr. soon just to make sure any major damage that needs correcting gets that attention before the fix is much more difficult. Whiskey and pizza sounds like a fine way to celebrate reaching the end of a major adventure. Well done out there!

Of course AP hears from AP before I do...;)

Slept through three ringing calls after falling asleep 5-10 minutes before said calls...

Dotwatching is HARD WORK;)

Sad to see SM red this AM, but it was the right move. NC should join them in the full category soon since they seem to have skipped as well?

Looks like SM was blasted when they arrived in TA4 and took a bit to sleep and collect themselves. I think they left a tight window on the o course, but melting brains lead to some bobbles. It looks like they just grabbed 3 points and got out of there. Sad indeed, but the right choice to make it home on time. Ironically, it lands them in a bit more of a race with teams who have similar scores.

It's looking like GOALS will be able to finish under their own power if they follow the previously used route to TA6 or Prineville. They are currently the team at the tail of the course.

Conman - you earlier mentioned that Vidaraid's track looked strange for the rappel. Not sure what the situation is, but Journey's looks much crazier. Very surprised to still see them there this morning.

So good to hear from you abiperk!!! We've been thinking a lot about you and the Rootstock crew, as you might expect :) So glad you guys had an adventure out there and made it home safely and under your own power. Can't wait to hear all about it!

Good on the pizza deliverers!! Glad to hear that you’re safely finished Abi/RR!! Bummer on the injury and I hope you can get it sorted. Kudos to the team for problem solving, hope there are pics of the bike carry!

Looks like back pro teams/upper full course teams are skipping pro points along the final trek. MRC skipped 36, looks like Castelli may have as well. The clock is ticking!

....meanwhile TanZ Nav is quietly moving up the rankings.... ;) The leaderboard hasn't been updated with some of the pro course teams dropping to full course or non comp (NC, Goals, etc) so once they update things there will be quite a shake up.

Biggest problem I see is that for many of the teams still struggling through is that the minimum time from the start of the bikeraft (TA6) is about 10 hours and there's only ~8 hours left until the 4pm race closure. Hmmm. Will TanZ make it? I'm certain that MRC, Castelli, NYARA, GOALS, SM, & Tower will not be able to make the finish without skipping mandatory CPs and going into the Non-comp category. However, RD Jason has clearly stated that any team that makes it to the finish line under their own power will still be ranked. So, keep getting after it everyone!

Another observation about MRC: They've nearly ventured into an out-of-bounds area West of CP38, which would usually cause them to incur a penalty. Hope there's a fence to warn them and that they turn North! Wonder if Jason will bother enforcing such a penalty at this late stage?

The race for 3rd lost some if it's thunder as Bend/Recharge slowed down considerably. Seems they took a bit of a nap on the beach just before CP41.

Now CP0 has passed Recharge/Bend as well, moving them down from neck and neck for 3rd to 5th. I wonder if they even realize if any of the other teams near them are still "pro" ranked? Well done CP0 to keep on moving and pick up a ranking position.

It's a party in TA6. It will be so interesting to see how each team gets out of there. One of our teammate's wives is there and said SM is currently strategizing, knowing that the legs are often taking longer than advertised. Apparently TanZ left maybe 20+ minutes ago on bikes (like it seems No Complaints also did) with their paddle gear. Seems that is allowed in the race rules though possibly with some kind of penalty. Water levels are low at the put-in/TA6.

Yeah, the paths out of CP6 will be complicated to say the least as teams strategize and make their plan. Transitioning from pedaling to paddling (including strapping bikes onto rafts) and back a few times to bag CPs seems nuts at this stage; I imagine they'll just swim across the very low reservoir to CP41 and skip CP42.

Seems like the podium has been wrapped up with Vidaraid, Journey, and 4Regions in that order. CP0 is at the rappel and should wrap up 4th, while Recharge is making their way to the rappel now in a comfortable 5th.

Outside of that, it seems like a disaster, as Conman mentioned. MRC were the highest ranking team to throw in the leg 7 towel, and are currently biking back to Prineville. The rankings from 6-15 are fully up the air, as teams try to snag a final few points by whatever discipline they can find them before getting to the finish. Just about 5 hours left!

Yeah this is nuts. MRC is now marked non-comp. And a bunch of the teams still on the packraft/bike may not make it in time despite getting all mandatories. I have no clue how the scoring is going to go here.

I'm exhausted just reading all of this.

AP (the woman not the website, that is) - you actually had to use the Bothy Bag? I thought such behaviors lived in the land of myth and lore. Glad you're ok.

Thanks all for your ongoing commentary.

Given how complex the finishing situation seemed several hours ago, it's downright amazing that just about every team will make the 4pm race cutoff. With only 1 hour remaining, the only team that gives me any pause is 23 MadCOW4 and it's going to be really close for them.

I am so curious how this will all get sorted. I do wonder about places 6 and beyond.

I'll take a stab at it:
6 TanZ
then ????

Recall that all teams who reach the finish line within time will be ranked: first by # of mandatory points, then by pro points, then by time. For example, TanZ got every mandatory and strategically skipped a few Pro points.

It seems to me that Castelli and a couple others near them skipped a mandatory near the end, so I *think* they are going to end up ranked below all the other "Full Course" teams who have punched every mandatory.

Are there penalties for arriving at a TA after a cutoff? It may be the circumstance for GOALS. :( Wonder if the RD thought this would be how the race played out.

Good effort Conman!

Not sure how they will sort out the varying levels of CPs skipped, but even TanZ didn't complete the course as prescribed. If we assume that all skips are "equal", then I would guess...

6 TanZ
7 MRC
8 Strong Machine
9 No Complaints
10 NorCal

Sure wish the awards ceremony and such were live streamed. Such and easy thing to do these days, but oh well. Maybe there will be a recording that's posted later.

Hi all,
Back at work Tuesday morning so of course AP is my first stop :)
Thanks to you all for keeping track of us as we made our way through Central Oregon.
I'll start putting together a race report once the swelling reduces in my fingers, but it will have to be a long one...so many stories.
As you all surmised correctly, we thought (and were told by RD Jason) the last two stages would be shorter than they actually were. It's still on us to figure that out, but we left TA 5 at 8:30 p.m., thinking that would be enough time to get the rest of the course finished. After a few hours of hiking, it became clear we had no chance to finish the full course. We hadn't slept more than a couple of naps for the previous 48 hours and we struggled on the trek. It was pretty demoralizing, but as the sun came up, we saw we were surrounded by other teams/friends and had a fun conga-line party into TA 6 together. I have no idea how they will score this race for all the teams that didn't complete the full course, but I suspect there will be some changes to how the rankings look now in the tracking. I don't see how you give credit for a mandatory point that was obtained via a different discipline than what the stage called for. Still, kudos to the teams that raced smarter than us and gave themselves time to get the mandatories while making the finish on time.
Personal highlights - the zippy bike descent from CP8 to CP9, hanging out with Rootstock at CP9, staring down (and running away from) an angry bull with NYARA after CP 27, and reaching the butte at CP 39 with MRC/NYARA/Castelli/Tower, and the hella-delicious burgers and milkshakes from the Tastee Treat opposite the finish line on Sunday.
For our team, this race was both a major accomplishment and a major disappointment. So many lessons learned...I doubt we will ever race that hard again, as it just takes too much out of the body and mind. The key for us will be to figure out how to race smarter and more efficiently, instead of trying to take out a course through brute strength and stubbornness. That's if I can ever convince Evan, Kit (and myself) to do another expedition race again...though Tom I think would do another in a heartbeat - that guy was an animal!
I'm around today so happy to answer any questions people had. I know I still have many myself, so not sure how much help I'll actually be...

well its been quite a while since I've (Aaron from NYARA) logged into AP, but it seems this is the place with the best discussion.

on the 80 mile hikeabike leg, we made the early decision to leave the pro course. While our nav was really good, our speed just wasnt there for what the course was throwing at us. And with a ton of racing left, we thought we could stay on the mandatory course and get a few more reasonable pro points to see how the rankings played out. This was a good decision for us, as we got to focus on navigation and momentum.

The course was full of highs and lows. But one of the most disappointing things for me, was the fact that we made every effort to make the cutoffs with time to spare, to only get to TA6 and be told that we dont have enough time to finish the course as planned. We were told to choose our own way back. But were not given any information on what that would mean for scoring (not the fault of the volunteers who informed us) We originally planned to go for the bike rappel just for the hell of it, but decided not to after riding a while, just because we felt pretty deflated from the mass confusion, after we made all the right decisions (In my opinion).

being able to cross paths with SM, MRC, Tower and others throughout the course was a real great part of the race. The course offered some real AR challenges and one of my favorite trekking legs ever, but in the end there was something missing from the RD side of things regarding properly handling cutoffs.

Thanks for the inside stories, axcxnj and stongmachine. Look forward to the full race reports when you have time and energy to type them up.

Did someone say "80 mile hikeabike leg"?

I didn't say it because I didn't want to remember it.

In the interests of compiling them (there must be more, eh?) here's a race report from Team Orienteering Utah

Race highlight video from team Vidaraid