Discussion: Primal Quest 2015

PQ starts tomorrow in South Lake Tahoe. I will be there doing daily pics and videos and audio updates. We are also going to be putting POV cameras on team as much as possible,that video will be up during the race. Outside TV is also covering the race and will be on TV in October.
This is the link to the live site. I will be posting on my Facebook page also.

http://primalquest.org/

It will be fun to see how CrossFit Headquarters trainers Matt & Cheri Chan, Chriss Smith's team does on just CrossFit training. Take a look at Matt's leg wound from a year ago before you interview them. Incredibly gnarly. Solid people! I hope they finish. Chris has a Special background and can probably navigate.

https://instagram.com/p/qIxz3hIgQ9/

https://instagram.com/p/qUqoObogWQ/

https://instagram.com/p/qH6N_iIgUH/

11 teams. Any Attackpointers? PQ has attracted a different crowd, which must have been the idea.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.16393071...

Does anyone have a link to the live tracking?

Their FB and Periscope.

Live tracking. It will also be on the live site.
http://www.pinnacletracking.com/Live/default.aspx?...

Its a small race but the plans are in the works to grow it. All the teams are relly excited to get started

Jim Driscoll (Drisc on AP) of Team GOALS is racing with Bones at PQ.

Randy: who else will be Periscope-ing?

cc: Galen P

Andrew Peterson is there with Team NorCal.

I am posting pics and videos at my Facebook page. The Social media team is working to get up to speed and get everything out faster.

if the skeleton crew doesn't have time, to get to laptop with wifi, but they do have cell signal, maybe just have them set up a Periscope to their personal twitter accounts, or the shared PQ account.

I'm heading up tonight with my new GoPro. Follow me via Instagram @kylerobertpeter for updates and heckling. I'll maybe do some live video but Sprint sucks in the Sierras. @kylerpeter on Periscope

Kyle, get some footage of teams lowering off Lover's Leap with their bikes on their backs. Especially of JD Eskelson if you get there in time - I suspect he'll ham it up and make it look more fun that it really is.

GAH! Journey is taking the same route that Bones tried and then bailed on. Bones lost ~3 hours. Anyone see how that route might be faster? The GodZone track was so spot on, I don't see how any other route would be faster.

Kyle, you know exactly which tank top to wear.

DON'T MAKE ME SAY IT!

Eric, we're biting our fingernails!!! AHHHH! We can't tell what's so enticing from our computers...but hoping they'll find a magic time-space wormhole in their route choice.

I predict at minimum a two hour turn around (loss) for Journey Racing compared to teams that took the more obvious route. Dang.

For those who want to geek out more deeply, :P I'm using this to compare the mapped (maybe what they have?) terrain and features to the satellite and road layers in the live tracking site.

Oh, and I neglected to point out the obvious: Journey is now looking like they're closed out or something. It is so agonizing to witness. I feel like I shouldn't watch.

They're moving again. On your topo map, there seems to be a trail on the spur they're headed to right now...hopefully they'll be able to climb out without too much trouble. Fingers crossed!

Looks like Too Much Fun hitchhiked from the bottom of the Echo grade to Kirkwood. Hope everyone is okay.

Holy cow, that's a steep slope up to that trail, Chelsea. Looks like about 250m of elevation over ~500m of map distance. On foot alone, not bad. On foot, carrying or pushing a bike, YUCK! I guess they're in "go big or go home" mode!

Haha! Yeah...maybe so. I'm eager to find out the story from them!

Looks like they're now on the trail, which appears to be a weak two-track. Perhaps it'll be fast riding from there to the road & to the TA. Great work, Journey!

I was kinda right... It cost them way over 2 hours. Looks like they lost 3 hours to Tahoe and 4 to NorCal. Still lots of racing, but...

The race among the top 5 or 6 teams is still pretty close. This is a fun race to watch. I'm kinda glad I went to bed last night instead of checking in in the race, because I might have stayed up all night watching Journey.

I'm enjoying the race, too. Lots of jockeying for positions and some nav. decisions that are playing out to be difficult. My biggest frustration with the live tracking site is all the missing checkpoints. Those CPs (4, 7, 9, 10) are out there, but they are not flagged on the tracking map. I also would love it if the site had the actual racer maps available along with the rules of travel. Hard to know why teams are doing weird things without seeing what they have to work with.

So, did Journey, NorCal, and Tahoe bank some sleep at TA2?

I think it's clear that NorCal and Tahoe slept a while. Journey's tracker dot is bit less focused on a single 10m x 10m area (i.e. stationary) that the others, but they were at TA2 from ~12:30 to ~5:30, so I think it's fair to say they banked at least 3 hours, maybe as much as four.

And sleep seems as if it'll pay off as the apparent CP7 south of Thimble Peak looks treacherous in the dark based on the tracks for the two leaders through that region over night. CP7 appears to be on the knob where NorCal's 0750 breadcrumb is.

For discussion: I have expected, and now believe, that CP9 is on or near the Bear River Res. dam. No clue where CP10 and CP12 are. Perhaps mid-rappel and mid-ascent on Calaveras Dome?

Hmmm? Maybe CP9 is on the Northwest side of the res. or maybe even on the Island at the North end?

Eric, CP's just appeared on the tracking map!

Hey! Muchas Gracias!

When Attackpoint speaks, the tracking map listens! ;)

New topic: I wonder who will push to get ahead amongst Journey, NorCal and Tahoe as they reach the big jumar at Calaveras Dome? That queue will suck if you end up behind a few other teams and have to sit there for a few or several hours. Wonder how many ropes they have set up for the ascent? and for the rappel?

Who is still on the full course?

Did Rusty Bottoms skip the rappel??

Rusty sure looks like they skipped the rappel based on how their track zoomed past there this morning. So I'd guess they are not full course, followed by Too Much Fun Club and MMDJ, who were both shuttled by vehicle from ~CP4 to TA2 / CP6. Everyone else is on the full course as far I've observed.

Eric, it's going to be close between Journey and NorCal. I keep thinking that Journey is catching up, and then I check the time stamps which seem to be consistently about an hour apart.

Once again, Journey, NorCal and Tahoe are all bunched up approaching a ropes section. Will any of them ever pull away?

Staying up all night will not help them, but I might just get hooked anyway. Anyone else notice the straight-to-the-bottom track that GodZone took down to the Mokelumne River? They followed the penstock pipeline (maybe even walked directly on the pipe?), which in all likelihood is running at a 50 degree or greater slope. Fun? In the darkness? I'd say yes, and even a bit thrilling at times!

There is a good trail right beside the pipeline. But its hard to see from the top.

Eric, that was the route I had picked out, as the preferred route marked by the RD didn't look like it would pan out, but Bones's route looked too long. GodZone's route down the pipeline was MUCH faster than Bones's. Here's to hoping that Journey finds it.

Oh, and what the heck happened with GodZone? Lost their passport at CP10 maybe? They passed it up, then looped back around, losing quite a bit of time. Looks like where they were about 9 hours ahead of Journey/NorCal/Tahoe, they're now only about 2 hours ahead. Looks like Bones has been banking some sleep, which seems like a good idea, and they'll probably start off SUPER fresh with a big lead to boot.

That jumar looks like it's being done one racer (I do see two sets of ropes, though) at a time based on Randy's recent photos uploads. I'm not sure Bones slept. Seems more likely that they are just sitting around (sleeping in shifts?) as one person at a time moves up the wall. That's at least a 1 hour ascent per racer, maybe more depending on darkness, level of exhaustion, etc.

Yeah, that ascent/rappel looks INSANE. I just couldn't/wouldn't do it.

I think the rappel is off a the rock formation/spur to the WSW about 500m. It's somewhat shorter (700ft?). Both look awesome and fun and super-at-the-edge-my-comfort-zone!

OTB teams may get some sleep at at a potential ropes log-jam, but what are the next cutoffs?

Is the 2nd rope Yishai's safety/rescue line?

So, based on Randy's stated 5 hour time for Bones took to complete the rope ascent, and the photos of two sets of ropes, I think it's safe to say it's one rope per team. This seems like a way to manage the log jam, but also makes for a very long process of getting the whole team up the wall.

The process that's playing out for NorCal and Journey sort of bears this out. Sometimes it seems like there are racers from both team on the face of the climb. It also looks like racers are able to scamper up the top of the crag given how scattered the tracking points become.

In other news, Bones, just made it to the river about 1.5 hours in advance of the dark zone. Can't wait for an update from the GodZone tracker...if they are moving fast, they might make it, too!

Did Journey just skip the rappel after the jumar? Or are they taking the long way to the drop zone?

On further review, it's a bit unclear why the top three team swing around to the crag behind Calaveras Dome. Nobody stops there long enough for a rappel. Puzzling.

Godzone made the paddle. It was one team per rope. I am uploading some helmet cam video from Jim Driscoll from Bones.

Just periscoped Bones on trek. Hot. About to swim.

Good man, KP. Link?

Ok, who knows why Bones took the van ride to the second river section put-in and then took off up the ridgeline, rather than hopping on the river?

I don't KNOW, but Chelsea suggested that maybe they left their tracker in the van...

wtf is going on with 6 and 15's GPS? they are in the middle of nowhere. Car ride? Chopper?

They def. got shuttled forward. I'll bet they were joined by #4 (MMDJ) whose tracker hasn't updated since early this morning.

It looks like there was a dark zone for the second whitewater section, which caught GODZone and allowed Journey to catch up. Journey and GODZone should now have a pretty solid hold on 2nd & 3rd place. Go Journey!

Brent and I just pulled up a USGS map to try to figure out what's going on with Bones. Do you think they could be mistaking the boundary lines for trails (or trying to follow the boundaries instead of trails)?

Sleep Monster took the map?

Just saw something about bears overnight in the comm traffic...not sure which team, but those qualify as sleep monsters, real or not.

Holy SH#$! GodZone just passed Bones. POOF, there goes almost an entire day's advantage for Bones. Did they see each other? Are they traveling together now? Time will tell.

could bones be heading back to the CP for some reason? this is so strange

Whoa! The tracking makes it look like they had to have seen each other on the old road there. If Bones doesn't turn around soon, it must be that they missed the CP.

that seems unlikely..as their tracker shows them stopped at the CP for quite some time. but who knows at this point

On facebook, they recently posted that Godzone passed through CP24. Wonder if there's someone stationed there at this point.

GZ and Bones were at the same point on the same road 8 mins apart ... heading in opposite directions... they must have run into each other... if I'm reading this all correctly, that moment (of realization) would have been the collision of the two opposites ends of the team dynamic spectrum!!

... speaking as someone who's experienced both :-) :-(

... gotta love this sport!! :-)

Maybe they're looking for a dropped passport or other map at their last CP? Because they're tracking history is whacked.

thats what im thinking...a lost passport. if so thats awful luck.

Sleep Monsters, dropped CP, injury...??

When was Bones' last sleep?

If they spent "a lot of time" at an unmanned CP, I would guess they were in the right place but unable to find it. eg If it was underwater, hanging high, hidden, in a hollow tree trunk...stolen..blown away..hard to find at night...

If it is a "public" area, it is always possible someone stole it. Especially if it was hung days ago.

Guessing game...

All we know is that GodZone either found it or decided it was gone and continued.

One year at Desert Winds a "wild donkey" stole a CP.

In other news, all me videos are on YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL58vTgSgRpG...

If it was something dropped I don't think they would have spent so much time zig-zagging in those few areas around the aptly named Hell Hole???

Now looks like they blew by CP 24 again :-(..... maybe they just couldn't find a route 'through' and are going the Wentworth Springs route now. I hope that's it.

Looking like Bones is taking an alternate route around to the south. There's a pretty well maintained road (Wentworth Springs) down there that may swing them around more quickly than the ~2 kph (yikes) bike-whack that it appears GZ is tackling right now.

It's possible that Mari from Bones knows that area well as she used to live in Tahoe, but both she and Roy may know the area well enough to make the decision to go the southern route.
I can't wait to see what NorCal chooses to do.

Looks like GZ is plugging away on the Northern route. Could it be the advantage of meeting Bones on the way back and therefore knowing it would be a slow push... being less of a mental barrier when its anticipated. Reminds me of the mangrove zig-zagging in Costa Rica and some of the chasing teams pushing through where other turned around. Substitute daylight for tides :-)

I'd expect Tahoe to have the best home-field advantage in the mix. Currently roughly tied for 5th, after being caught at the river by Seek Adv. and Renegades.

Who will find a rideable road first???.....

GZ my not be on a fast rideable road/trail, but they appear to be on a trail. Plotting their location on a USGS Topo maps makes it look like they are on the McKinstry Trail.

Bones may be riding through a recently (last few years) burned area. Different satellite photos show different things. But if that is the case, doubtful any of the trails around their area have been rebuilt. Might beheading south along the river for a while.

Random questions about the current area the leaders are playing in: Why is there a CP24 and a note at TA7 that it is also #24? Why does the expected route of travel and apparent desired route for Bones and GZ go so far ESE toward Rockbound Lake when the next CP is clearly NE of CP24? I'm just going to guess that there are other CPs that aren't shown on the map.

Robsmith, you're right. I forgot that the King Fire went through an area south of Hell Hole reservoir last year I think. But a quick look online shows that the fire didn't involve too many acres around the lake, so maybe it won't be too bad for them. Though I just looked at the updated tracking map, and there is a new labeled alternate route around Hell Hole that I don't remember seeing before. And Bones is not on the red route line but south of it. I sure hope Roy or Mari or someone from Bones writes up something about their race.

And Godzone is well past the point where Bones turned around. And they seem to be keeping their speed up.
On another note, it looks like maybe NorCal will follow Journey's path, and not Bones' from CP #23. though it's too soon to tell.

Go Bones Go. They are so close to a trail that looks like doubletrack that should dump them onto Wentworth Springs. Cruising on gravel will feel like such a relief. GZ seems to be doing well on the climb, but it looks like the steepest section is ahead--hope they can finish before dark, but that doesn't seem likely. It's crazy to think they could run into each other on Wentworth Springs Rd after they went such different routes.

Anyone know the approximate distances for the last trek and paddle? Looks like 20ish miles and 25ish? And does anyone know how the top few teams are doing on sleep?

Looks like Bones is on/real close to a 2 track on the satellite image and Godzone is a little closer to TA7, but has a little steep hike a bike left. They seem to have slowed a little too?

Will be interesting to see how Journey manages this section coming into it at night...

Did NorCal nap? The tracker has been at CP 23 for a few hours I think. Hopefully it's not a dropped tracker.

According to the Tahoe Rim Trail Association maps:
-Barker Pass(TA7) to Tahoe City(CP25) is 16.7 miles
-Tahoe City to Brockway Summit (CP28) is 19.2 miles-
Add a few miles from Brockway Summit to TA8 and it look like close to 40 miles of trekking. On the plus side, they won't have to be pushing their bikes.

Bones is finally back on trail. Tracker says 37 kph. That has to feel good.

What's Bones doing now??? If they would have kept heading East, they would have looped back just in front of GZ. Some BIG sleep monsters. That's the only explanation!!

From the satellite, Wentworth Springs Rd has a turnoff there and there's another road that keeps going that's much more prominent. Hope they figure it out soon...

And GZ looks like they're almost up the climb.

When I zoom in using my iPad, Bones looks like are doing fine and are on Wentworth Springs rd.

GZ and Bones are going to be neck and neck, most certainly able to see each other's lights over next 8-10 hours. Which way will Journey turn after CP 24? Should be a very interesting night.

Oh, this is good. If they only knew.

I bet Bones can see GZ's lights ahead of them right about now.

Is there a scale on the tracking map?

They seem to be approx ~2.5 miles apart.

Thanks, did you get that from a separate topo map or am I missing something on the tracking map?

GZ takes the lead.

Bash: the scale is hiding at the bottom right of the map. If you have a small screen it may be hard to make it visible and it may be covered by the PQ logo.
Etrain: Huh?

Now that their tracks are parallel, we can see that GZ has about a 1:30 lead on Bones.

I'm super keen to see the route that both Journey and 40-50 take. Clearly they've opted immediately for the Southern route from CP24, but they are going further South and West than Bones did. Perhaps that'll pay off by avoiding a big bike-whack in favor of some additional miles.

Eric, that's what we're pleading for over here! We've been watching, saying, "NOOOOO! Don't you know you're going the WRONG WAY?!?!?" Now, we're looking at the route into the canyon and around, and thinking, "Maybe both of those teams are super-secret geniuses!????"

At this point it would be hard to get a team excited about bike whacking at night, so the longer safer route would be hard to pass up. I wonder if Bones would make the same bike whack decision if they were there at night. Maybe. Because they are crazy! And crazy-fast.

Thanks, Eric!

GODZone took ~10:30 to get from CP24 to the junction of their track with the Wentworth Springs Road just North of Loon Lake. Bones took only ~9:30 to go from CP24 (after their second visit) to the same spot. Unfortunately, their choice to go North around Hell Hole Res. and then turn back added 24:00 to their race time - OUCH! Let's see if 40-50 or Journey can top either Bones' or GZ's direct times thru this stretch.

Dang! NorCal seems to have missed the turn in the dark to get to CP 24 from French Meadows reservoir. Catch it NormalAndrew! Turn back!

And 40-50 Promax seems to be sleeping at the river while Journey passes them?

40-50 has been taking sleeps just about nightly throughout the race. This seems to be their strategy for staying in the fold. They are on the alternate course after being shuttled forward at one point.

And NorCal is turning back on track! The time stamps say that they took around an hour to figure it out.

I saw GZ at the way point on the Rubicon. They did a 10 hour bike whack to get there. They were tired but moving ok.

I ran into Bones on may way back down (FYI we were both lost them less than me) They hit the WP right at an hour after GZ. They were bummed but dont't think they are out of the race. I am post short vides from both as I type. All of the videos are here.https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL58vTgSgRpG...

Thanks Randy. That was great. I'm so bummed for our Bones team as they had to turn around after losing nearly a day, but good on Godzone for figuring a way out and taking the lead.

Thanks for the video Randy. Listening to Jason from Bones at the end of the clip--optimistic as always. Hopefully today is a good day on the Tahoe Rim Trail.

was there a mandatory rest at TA7 or something? looks like both teams stopped there for a while, but Godzone got the Jump and is now on the trek

I think it most likely that being away from all civilization and supplies for more than 30 hours (55+ for Bones) before hitting TA7 means they are low on food, had taken little rest, feet were destroyed, AND they needed to pack up their bikes and transition to hiking. This will be a typical situation for everyone, so I'd expect 1 hour or more in transition for every team. Plus whatever rest they choose to take before the 30+ hour trek ahead. GZ spent ~4 hrs at the TA. Bones was at 2+ hours when their tracker stopped reporting.

As they return to "civilization" it will be fun to see the periscopes!

I had to look up this "Periscope" thing. I had envisioned a camera on a long pole or pipe sticking up. I am so out of date...

So, Journey just hit the junction I was using for route+speed comparison in the bike-whack zone near Hell Hole Res. and the Rubicon River here. Journey took a bit over 13 hours using their route. They also slept over-night for about 2.5 hours, so their actual travel time between points was only 10.5 hours...comparable to GZ, but without any bikewhacking as far as I can tell. Bikewhacking is miserably exhausting, so is Journey set up for a surge to the finish? GZ is moving very fast on the trek so far.

Interesting route Bones is taking on the trek! Running the roads all the way to CP25?

Why am I not surprised. And just when I thought Bones was too far back.

GodZone still has a decent lead. Bones is moving quickly, but lets see what they do between 24 and 25, it looks like godzone is taking the straight(ish) line approach

It looks like Bones was ~3.5 hrs behind GZ leaving cp24. They appear about 30 minutes out from cp25 where GZ was about 2.5 hrs ago so Bones will have made up about 30 minutes on them with this route.

I just saw the sit on top boats (on FB where Primal Quest posted) for the final Lake Tahoe crossing to the finish. That's going to suck.

Sit on top boats at night on an alpine lake with water temps in the low 50ish (f not c, but I am sure the other way would suck as well) . Might make people wish they were hike-a-biking after a few hours.

I agree, but it's better then rubber duckies.

Remember at the original Tahoe PQ when Gurney brought a fairing for the awful Cobra Quads. Lengthened the water line by FIVE FEET' or so! Of course they won the race.


I wonder if the Kiwis took any advice from SG for this throwback event.

Seems like barring a major blunder by Journey, they'll end up 3rd. Bones and GZ have quite a big lead with just the paddle to go. Big enough to probably absorb any on-water delays or trouble spots. Nobody is catching anyone with sheer speed on the water given the boats they are using. Same could be said for Bones and GZ: 2nd and 1st unless something bad happens to GZ. Not going to stop watching, but the podium positions are coming into clearer focus.

looks like 1 and 2 are in. GZ & Bones. Congrats!!

Any news on NorCal? They've been stopped longer than I would expect at TA 7. I hope no one is too injured. Perhaps they forgot their tracker? They seem to have been there for the past 8 hours.

Looks like the Lake CPs were removed. Bones track follows the E side of the lake. That probably removed even more of a chance of Bones overtaking GZ reducing the amount of night navigation. Looks like they took a nap before the paddle. Hard to know when GZ arrived because tracker was MIA but GZ left 2.5 hours before Bones got to TA. Must have been hard letting the race go and sleeping. The paddle took Bones about 5 hours with a 4 hour nap before it.

Looks like Norcal left TA7 at 08:00

Looks like our friends on Seek Adventure are trying to find a novel way to approach TA7 this morning.

congrats to GZ and Bones....nice job!
thanks legendary randy for the great video/pics. Thanx PQ and APer's that deciphered all the data to make it possible to follow the race...

Hope the party is going strong...Journey Racing is about to join the fun!

They moved the paddle to the east side for safety. The wind was really bad yesterday