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Discussion: Very nice job

in: runninghils; runninghils > 2013-07-20

Jul 21, 2013 7:22 PM # 
Mr Wonderful:
We really thought you had it - we figured you had cleared that remote o section and would get the final two points by the buzzer. Our thinking was to lock in our two and while you were in that elite tier of 35+ we might be able to be tops in the 34 or fewer club.

I have started working backwards, figuring out my own cutoffs, but for some reason forgot to do that for this race. I think it would've been helpful for us; maybe get fewer points at the remote o section and do more around the end. But it is really hard to drop points early, especially when a team as strong as yours would usually clear, given Infiterra's frequent ~1/3 clear rate.

I hope there is little if any swimming in WT! Maybe an isolated river crossing - that was kind of fun in Rage 2012. But not some decent haul.
Jul 21, 2013 9:05 PM # 
Thanks. We thought so too... we were debating how many to go for as we were heading out on the last O-course. I was advocating for 2 and running it in, assuming that we had PLENTY of time for that. We discussed leaving points out there on the remote one, but due to the way we ended up doing it, the rest were "on the way back" so it made more sense to go for them, even though it's never as straightforward as it seems. Also, it's so true about Infiterra usually having top teams clear the course with at least 30-40 minutes to spare. That's what we expect and if you want to compete, you have to take the risks early on.

Yeah, short river crossings where they make sense are ok. It looks like there will be lots of portaging. I hope you like that! Ha!
Jul 22, 2013 1:08 AM # 
You looked strong all the way through (when you were whizzing past me!). What great work and so impressed with all that you have accomplished. How do you feel?
Jul 22, 2013 1:55 AM # 
Ha! I felt good during the race... we were going hard, so of course, I got tired, but "normal tired" for a race. I was super tired as soon as we stopped, though. I think it was partially due to the deflation of missing the cut off.
Jul 22, 2013 12:42 PM # 
Sounds like fun. We were driving down I-75 while you were just about to finish. We should have stopped to cheer for people while finishing... Can't wait to see how we do at Nationals.
Jul 22, 2013 9:23 PM # 
Me too! :-D
Jul 23, 2013 12:48 AM # 
Hilary we totally thought you guys were gonna make it!! That was a close race. I must say, this was the most amusing race I have done to date. I really enjoyed the fact there that were to many CPs. Made everyone freak out and get our heads spinning. It put an extra edge of pressure on the race. Also kept ALL teams (top to bottom) out there for the 12 hour duration of time which was great.
Jul 23, 2013 1:31 AM # 
Thanks! You guys did well! We thought we were going to finish as well, but things don't always go the way you think they will. Learn and move on. It's a weird thing once you start clearing the course and expecting to do so each time... it gets hard to leave the points out there even when you know it's what you need to do. I remember when I first started racing and I couldn't imagine getting all the points and wondered how anyone could even do that. Ha! Gotta get some of those time planning skills back, I guess!
Jul 23, 2013 11:59 AM # 
I agree; it just totally messes with our heads.
Jul 23, 2013 9:19 PM # 
The more points left on the course, the more "luck" has to do with the final outcome.
Jul 23, 2013 9:55 PM # 
Mr Wonderful:
Here all this time I was giving you credit for being much more strategic in choosing a point-dense route back to the finish at Cabin Fever, but if you'd rather just be lucky, that's fine too.

I much preferred the too much for everyone format. It levels the playing field. Otherwise, it's a completely different race for the teams that are likely to clear. There's much less strategy and planning. Just head down and have at it. That what tris are for!
Jul 23, 2013 10:08 PM # 
Yeah Tone, you are too modest. Own second place like the boss you are. Getting one extra CP more then us also was probably luck. not.
Jul 24, 2013 3:40 AM # 
The Cabin Fever Rogaine was planning because we figured we wouldn't get all the points and planned accordingly. That rogaine was easier to plan for because we did it the year before and knew the area and knew exactly how hard it was.

The to much for everyone format works if you know you won't clear at the beginning. Imagine how much farther ahead you would be if you only got 2 or 3 points at the middle O-course and moved on? We could of probably been at 40+ points in that race. Mike and I kept taking about a middle-pack team doing that and taking the win. Thank got no one did that.

One extra CP was luck. We could of missed it and been past you guys on time or maybe even missed the cutoff. You guys had the time but decided to play it safe. Had you of went out for one more cp things would of been different.
Jul 24, 2013 9:45 AM # 
Mr Wonderful:
Did you think you would clear at the beginning? I didn't!

Arguably they could have given a ~straightline distance for the final o course to make planning a little more straightforward. Anyone with a smartphone could see the loop lengths for Holdridge, assume they would ride the whole loop worst case, and judge accordingly. I'm not sure why I didn't; I chalk it up to poor strategy.

7 o points on the middle course, distance ~5 km.
11 o points on the final course, distance ~10 km.

No guarantee you get more points per hour on o course #2.
Jul 24, 2013 11:05 AM # 
I figured we would only lose a few points. But when the Infiterra guys tell you that a team may get all points then you plan on it. If you knew you weren't going to finish why did you spend so much time in the middle O course?

When we got to Holdridge we were told we couldn't do the west loop so I never looked at the map. After completing the North Loop Zandra told us that Must Be Nuts were given permission to ride the West loop. I didn't put up a fight because I figured it wasn't worth it. Maybe I should of looked at the map because Must Be Nuts got there a few minutes after us and spent another 40 minutes riding trail and were still able to get 2 points at the final O. Granted, they got all 5 in the middle O course and we missed 1 but apparently it was worth it to ride the singletrack.

You are right, no guarantee but the main part of Seven Lakes is a lot less over-grown than the middle O area. Plus the final O was also used for the beginner race so they had to adjust the difficulty for most of the points.
Jul 24, 2013 2:04 PM # 
Well, we were playing it safe. By the time we got that last CP we had about a half hour (we could have saved about 45 minutes though taking time from TAs and such giving just a few more minutes on that last trek) but were moving a little slow. So with only 30 minutes to get back I looked at Jens and was like, "lets just "walk" back slowly." lol. I guess we were being lazy a little bit.

If we were smarter though and strategized better (as you both are getting at) with the course overall, it would have been possible to get at least 40 points. I blame it on starting at 4AM! Totally threw off our groove.
Jul 24, 2013 2:50 PM # 
Mr Wonderful:
If Luke tells me something, I don't plan on it! He was off by 2-4 miles on a Rage 2012 trek, and ~3-5 miles on a Rage 2013 bike. Plus he thinks too highly of his beloved racers - I recall he figured more teams would clear the Rage in 2012 (not sure about 2013). It may be possible, but that's everything goes right, and I'm still waiting for that race!

I stayed on the middle o course too long because I like o courses, not because it was a good strategic decision.
Jul 24, 2013 2:55 PM # 
Yeah, you got that right.... Luke is always full of it. I remember Tony Charameda always saying that. After a race briefing we would walk back to uthe car to map plot and he would mumble.... "yeah right Luke." haha

This discussion thread is closed.