Discussion: COC Sprint results

The splits are now online.

Congratulations on a great race.

But its a shame to tarnish your permformances with comments like these about the organziers. Making statements like this - that the organizers are guessing about the results, that they are scared, that they should have thrown out the results - these are all extremely serious accusations and need to be handled in the appropriate manner. They are also extremely hurtful (not to mention time-consuming) to the organizers, stir up un-needed controversy, and disuade potential organizers from hosting future events.

In fact the errors that the start crew made were very easy to identify, very easy to check, very easy to fix and no action other than what was done - i.e. fix the splits - was required. Certainly there was no need at all for the drastic measure of throwing out the results for such an easy-to-fix mistake.

Anyway, congratulations again on a good weekend of races. I hope we will see more fire and determination at the NAOCs if you're heading there

Great to hear the splits are up.

First of all my intention of this training log post was not to dissuade the organizers or be hurtful. Also I wasn’t trying to make comments that would tarnish my performances at all; I was making a race review like I saw it happen. Yes after reading it again it might have sounded more angry and harsher than I intended it to be but I still believe I told it how it happened. I don’t know what you call it besides guessing, no one knew when any of the red group runners actually started and I was told that by an organizer. No one at the start wrote down that certain people started late? Actually the runners had to inform the organizers. When you look at the splits and say certain runners should not take this long and then base splits compared to others and then start adjusting times that is called guessing. Yes it is kind of obvious when everyone takes 2 minutes longer but you can’t do that at an elite level. There were more things that were not done correctly besides the split issue. And yes if this was a WRE event anywhere else it would have been thrown out because it was not done properly according to the WRE rules, it is as simple as that. I was even told by the organizers that they screwed up the start procedures and it was unacceptable. I didn’t think I was hurtful and wasn’t trying to be, people make mistakes and that’s life. “Un-needed controversy” all I was doing was calling it like it happened and like I saw it. As for the scared comment, yes the organizers were doing everything they could to fix the unfortunate situation but in elite level sports you can’t start fixing things that affected the results, who is to say everyone started in the same spot when they was no starting line. Who is to say everyone “touched the start triangle”(is that even a rule?, how far can you be from it when it is just pin flagged?) when there was an elephant track straight ahead from the map pick up. Just remember there is always controversy, no matter what sport you are in.

Thank you and yes there will be more fire and determination like always at the NAOC’s.

Thanks for the clarification - and looking forward to the NAOCs!

Here's why I don't agree that the organizers were guessing:

To guess is "to form an opinion of from little or no evidence". But there was plenty of evidence. First was the obvious look at the splits which showed a clear increase from one minute mistake to two minute mistake. Then there was the evidence of the runners themselves who had taken splits and could confirm where the jump took place. Third there was the evidence of the change in volunteers at that that same time which would explain how the jump happened. This is all pretty strong evidence.

As for "if this were a WRE event anywhere else it would have been thrown out" - I just don't believe it. I'm not sure where you would get such an impression. I mean you were in France last year where the organizers of the WOC Sprint Q seriously screwed up (by incorrectly marking out of bounds and dq'ing runners left and right, and then re-instating some of them) and that WRE event wasn't tossed out. So the notion that Canadian events are held to some lower standard simply doesn't wash with me.

Here is from the IOF JUry Guidelines:
"Sporting fairness shall be the guiding principle in the interpretation of rules by competitors, organisers and the jury." Nobody got any unfair advantage from the mistakes made at the start, so I don't see how the rules could be interpreted to cancel the results. What would be the point in any case?

Anyway, thanks for your clarification and congratulations again on what was more important - well earned Bronze & Silver medals

Ok that’s news to me that people wore non gps watches to take splits. I wasn't the only one that felt the race should have been tossed. The WOC 2011 Sprint was a whole different situation; it was 100% the competitor’s fault that they miss read the map, despite whether or not the mapping was right or wrong the onus was on the competitors. I’m not talking about sporting fairness in general I’m talking about a specific aspect that everyone may not have started in the same spot. It is what it is; it’s in the books either way. Stoked for NAOC’s!!

Okay- fair enough. Except... ;-) (I should never get started on the rules) ... that the 2010 WOC Sprint qualification race was decidedly not fair and the rules were clearly violated. The IOF has come out as far as to say that the out of bounds was not marked correctly. Here is the rule, from ISSOM

The course planner should not encourage unfair actions from the competitors, such as crossing barriers or areas with forbidden access. If it is unavoidable to set legs that cross or skirt areas with forbidden access or impassable walls and fences, then they have to be marked in the terrain,

And here is from the IOF's Event Advisor newsletter:
'A lesson to be learnt from this is that if the organiser recognises that there is a chance that an out-of-bounds area might be crossed by runners, maximum effort should be put into trying to prevent them doing so – this is far better than concentrating on catching offenders and disqualifying them. If a feature or an area does not look obviously “out-of-bounds” on the ground, then tape is required.'

The area in the gardens clearly needed to be marked in the terrain - and it wasn't. Therefore the course planners violated this rule and created an unfair competition. But the results stood. More recently a WRE in Spain had a 1:7,500 map with poor print quality and the IOF was asked to cancel the results, but they decided the best action was to allow the results to stand.

The IOF actually has a guideline regarding when to cancel the results. I think if you read this you will have to agree the COC sprint was not "significantly unfair" and so according to the guidelines there was no basis to cancel the results.

But anyway - I do get carried away on the rules sometimes. But I do think it is important to be absolutely clear about what is okay and what isn't. In this case I agree that the start markings were probably ambiguous, but I don't believe it was enough to make a significant difference. The problems with starting people at the wrong time was definitely not a significant problem in the fairness of the competition. The problem with course planners simply marking areas as forbidden in order to "trap" runners is clearly unfair and against the spirit of the sport. Issues of poor map printing are also serious issues. We have to keep everything in perspective or we really will start worrying about all of the wrong things