you were right we should have done 11 and skipped 18... now that I am home and look at the map it would have been better... At the time 10 to 11 looked like rough ground... and some how I thought 17 to 18 would have been a down hil run ... sorry about that...and I see that the trail from 2 to 3 may have been faster.... but I am happy thanks for your help...