Discussion: NEOC 40!

OK - I tend to be out of the loop and slow on the uptake: is a return to Charlie's Kitchen planned?

I'm not sure Charlie's Kitchen has the capacity to handle a broadly organized group, but members are encouraged to build posses and visit the birthplace of our club. Hans, do you have plans to celebrate?

If I didn't have conflicting plans for tonight, I'd dine at Charlie's Kitchen to commemorate the event. But mostly I just wanted to post something to deal with the dangling <b> tag. (Oh, looks like Ian beat me to it.)

There were actually three dangling <b> tags.

dangling tags?

And WPR in October? NEOC hosting another event there?

dammit Neil!

Whatever a dangling tag is, if I did it I'm sorry.

<facepalm>This is too funny...</facepalm>
(It wasn't you, it was Hans... the first time...)

Thanks! I'll relax and go back to being quiet.

OK, OK, I didn't close the <b>; didn't think of durability across posts. Sorry, Geeks. And Tim, carry on being heard.

Back to the real thread. Yes, I had plans to celebrate and did: A big glass of Gatorade before my outing up Mt. Megunticook. Maybe something else later. Have a nice coating of snow further up and north. Dinner at Charlie's is a stretch from Camden.

A 40ieth is worth celebrating. We had a very nice 30ieth at Wachusett Village Inn. Plan, please! I can contribute with Scrap Books, original BH map/course and presence.

BTW: Award art by wife Lena (the creator of the NEOC Troll) for the 10th booklet (with digital year fix).

Hey, Hans - we should definitely chat. I'm planning a banquet to celebrate, and your thoughts and help would be very useful.

Great! I'll e-mail you my connections. No hint of NEOC's 40ieth at our web site yet. I have prodded Pres and WebMaster.

40 Years! Wow! Good on NEOC and Hans Bengtsson. I remember that meet at Ward Pound Ridge. The map was a great leap forward for the time. The meet was also noteworthy as it generated a fairly lengthy article in no less a publication than Sports Illustrated (not just a Faces in the Crowd snapshot).
Here's an idea: perhaps NEOC, HVO and WCOC could join to organize a meet re-running some of those courses from the 1972 US Champs on the original map of Ward Pound Ridge (blown up for the 40 year older eyes.)
NEOC's first NAOC at Bear Brook (1975?) also raised the bar for championship meet standards across North America. Again good job Hans and what was then a growing number of NEOC neophytes.

Has someone got the map and courses from 1972?

Thanks, Gord. Great idea, a re-run would be fun! Bet that Kjellström's Pound Ridge map was by far the best NAm map at the time. What a treat! Were you at both meets? And did you go to the UNO meet at BB last fall? The two BB map versions are vastly different. The '75 was based on USGS. Article, right; wonder if I have that one somewhere. A very good one.

Yes, I do have maps/courses both from US Champs '72 and NAOC '75. Are there any local doers willing to step forward?

Geof Connor has been setting up events at WPR the last few seasons. He might be interested.

The USOC'72 were actually held on Oct. 14-15, so October would be an appropriate time to hold a retro-USOC'72. I'll be there.

FYI - The NEOC website (thanks Webmaster JP) now has some stuff from the 10th Anniversary booklet (56 pages; so nicely compiled and produced by P Gagarin - thanks!): NEOC 10th excerpts.

What a great double on consecutive weekends! Replay of '72 US Champs at WPR then the '12 NAOC the following weekend. Bet you could get a lot of tourist-orienteer interest from around the world, particularly if some groups could fill in the week with low key meets in places like Harriman, NY Central Park, etc

Gord>> http://www.attackpoint.org/eventdetail.jsp/event_9...

If there is going to be an event at Ward Pound Ridge the weekend before NAOC that would be great. I'm happy to promote it on the NAOC website if wanted. Just let me know.

Good ideas here. A week full of orienteering is attractive. I believe there would be the most takers if done during the days before the NAOC (which starts with Model on Thursday Oct. 18). Since I plan to attend, I could, on my way down, do the USOC'72 re-run at WPR on Wednesday - with some support by some more locals (I have a 7 h drive to WPR). Step up and fill in more days.

Having thumbed through the NEOC's 10th booklet, I got reminded of how dominant NEOC was late 70ies and early 80ies. During '77-'82 NEOC took more than half of the USOC titles every year; with 11 of 13 in 1981. In preparation for the 10th I assume.

HVO is looking at having a WPR event for the weekend before NAOCs. Whether controls (minus SI-units) would be allowed to remain in the woods during the following week would be up to park management.

NEOC#1: I need to put our potential ED in touch with you. He will want to see the 1972 courses (mostly for the start & finish locations) so he can reserve an area. Please send your contact info to me at GuyPOlsen AT AOL.com

Also, the possibility of leaving the controls out is looking good. :-)

HVO is moving forward with having an event at Ward Pound Ridge on the weekend before NAOC. Geof Connor will be the Event Director and is willing to set up the 1972 courses, but he needs the maps!

Who has them?

EDIT- Don't know how this post got here. I must have hit the wrong button.
And Guy, below, I don't know anything about the '72 courses.

I do. Will be back in ME on July 12.

GuyO If your e-mail address on AP is correct you will shortly be receiving an e-mail from me with my route on the Blue Course at WPR in 1972. At least that will be a start. The map scale was 1:20,000!

@Gord: Got it!

@EricW & NEOC#1: Do you both have a full set of the 1972 courses?

I'm quite sure that I have. Probably even blank maps. I think that the CC was called the Ski Shelter located on the south side.

@NEOC#1: You [edit:] appear to have no e-mail listed on your AP profile. Unless we can contact you, HVO will be unable to go forward with a redux of the 1972 US Champs courses at Ward Pound Ridge.

BTW, regardless of the courses we end up using, a recently digitized and partially updated WPR map will be used for this event. Use of the 1972 map would be an option if we set the 40-year old courses.

You have no e-mail listed on your AP profile.
Really!? When I look at the profile here is shows HansGB2 at lycos.com. Try it!

Checked again, and it still is not displayed for me...

But I did get your e-mail message. Thank you!

FYI: I have sent a scan of the USOC'72 courses to GuyO who fwd to Geof Connor.

And here is the original Invitation. Note: only four courses: Blue, Red, Yellow and White:

What did juniors under 12 years run?

In those days the under 12 crowd generally didn't go out on courses on their own.
Course setting standards hadn't evolved to the point where the white course was set to a 'can't get lost' standard. It wasn't considered wise to send out anyone younger than 12 on what could involve some off-trail navigation.

I was going to say "Probably white with a shadow. (Just guessing; I wasn't there.)" I started orienteering in 1990.

I find the M/F designation interesting as it used the H(err)/D(ame?) classes. Glad we got away from that. Anyone know how long we've used M/F in the States?

H(erren)/D(amen) it is. I believe that German (Swiss influence) was the official IOF language at the time. Our sport was OL (OrientierungsLauf).

Note the requirement of min 5 US residents for a title to be rewarded. I have the results cover but the list have has gone astray. Does anyone have the full results? Dave L?

What did juniors under 12 years run?
Wayfarer with parent.

@GuyO What did juniors under 12 years run?

Interesting that Mark Adams and I were having this same discussion a few months ago. Back when we started there was no white course. M 13-14 was the first course and we ran yellow. Map reading skills had to be developed at a younger age if you wanted to race. I ran my first Ontario Champs in M13-14 (on yellow) when I was 10 and there were also lots of other 11 and 12 year olds also running the yellow course at that time. Interestingly there were many more juniors racing then than now.

There were more juniors racing then than now.

On that subject, while there are a lot of people registered for NAOC, if you are a junior, the competition is not as fierce as I would like.

I'd also like some more F21s, while we're at it.

I'd like some F21s too.

@Hammer: I could swear that, when I did my first Orange course -- at the West Point A-meet no less -- back in 1983, I saw you at the start going out on Blue. And, like other WP courses back then, it was brutal looking.

Map: Bog Meadow Pond

Sounds like it's time to jump-start that visas for o-babes program.

I nominate bshields to head this vital initiative.

@GuyO: I ran Red at WP in '83 at Bog Meadow Pond. Red was brutal enough that weekend too.

@j-man: Thanks to strong long-running jr. programs in Calgary and WHitehorse there were decent junior numbers at the Canadian Champs. In fact, the depth and performances in F 17-20 were stronger than F21 in the sprint (same course). Unfortunately most of our ARK'ers are still too young or new to the sport to travel that far yet but hopefully NAOC 2014 in Ottawa.

@Hammer--I look forward to seeing them in 2014. You guys are doing great stuff.

But, for 2012, I look forward to US juniors running away with the Future Champions Cup! ;)

In the run up to NAOC 2012 HVO are holding a meet on Saturday 13th October at Ward Pound Ridge. This will commemorate the 3rd National Champs held at WPR 40 years ago (14/15 Oct 1972) run by NEOC and will incorporate the red and blue courses from that event. Full range of other courses will also be available. See HVO web site for more details. The event will also be in conjunction with the Parks 70 year celebration so come and enjoy both.
Red/Blue controls will be left out in the woods (sans e-punch) for about 5 days after the event in case anyone wants to run but can’t make Saturday. Blank maps and a master map will be available at the Park office for $2 (or premarked in soft pdf from me if you let me know).
There - now it is official.

Thanks! I'll add the info to the NAOC 2012 website.

@geof: Got a link?

In the 1970's there was very little educational material produced in english. Silva, the compass makers, stepped in to the void and produced an interesting slide and audio show aimed at schools. It featured lots of shots of Ward Pound Ridge which this year celebrates 40 years since it hosted the US Orienteering Championships.
Here is a brief look at that filmstrip Warning: you may see a face that you know.

My planned USOF'72 Real Retro Re-run at WPR has been postponed for 10 years. Sorry! I busted an Achilles tendon at the WMass 5-day in May and am not able to run yet. Total bummer. So it's meaningless and risky for me to enter the NAOC'12 and therefore I will not travel past WPR. And driving 2 x 6-7 h to man a meet with a minimal crowd, is just too much (sorry gordhun!). But Geof Connor's/HVO's Oct 13 Sat meet USOC'72 Re-run + self service (see Geof's post above) at WPR will provide for re-run opportunities nicely.

BTW - I'm looking forward to the ski season. Much more gentle on the body.