Discussion: Improvements & Sustains

Participants,

We are looking at sustains and improves for our meet. As organizers, we only see a small part of the overall aspect of the meet. As participants, we would love for you to comment on our meet and list great things to sustain-- to ensure we include them for future years, as well as things we may have been lacking or downright failing in--to ensure we fix them and keep improving our meet.

Thank you for the fun and successful weekend, we couldn't do it without you!

--USMA O-Team

Excellent meet Jordan. You guys should be very proud. I don't know how others did with it, but my old eyes couldn't see bare rock on the map. Maybe a darker screen would do it. Otherwise, great maps, courses, overall organization. Cadets very efficient and helpful at the start and finish. Just overall very very fine.

Excellent meet Jordan. Enjoyed every minute of it! Could you turn the temperature down a bit next time? :P

great event everyone! and thank you Jordan for not sending us pretty much right down a ski slope this year :) My toe is VERY happy for that!
I think the only two things I would say to improve on next year are small things 1) make sure at least the boxes of water are open at each water station. (I understand that we want to keep the actual jugs closed but box open is nice) and 2) a big sign for the start of the route to the start and then streamer/signs that you had. I got asked many times where the start was.

but over all probably the best time i've had at west point yet well done! oh I liked the big sign of every ones start times as well that was handy!

I think the way you did the awards was fine. I'm curious as to what others think. You might set a trend.

The camping area was much nicer this year than last though I realize that last year there were some unusual circumstances.

Hot water in the showers would have been nice.

For myself, I don't miss the barracks and would rather camp (unless it's a downpour), so not being able to use the barracks doesn't bother me.

A few more cups at some of the water stops (including the start on day one) would be nice. At least you didn't run out of water but many cups get wasted because when you grab one, sometimes several come along. Maybe you need 2-3 times as many cups as people visiting the station.

The last couple of years there has been no shuttle and I think it has worked well without it. I realize that you may have to use a shuttle if the start is remote and there is no parking but if you can avoid the shuttle, that's probably good.

If I think of more, I'll add it later. All in all, I thought it was a very good meet.

Very good event; just a handful of nits to pick...

On Saturday, having two courses with assigned starts, plus the Trail-O at a different venue, was a bit much.

Agree with carlch on the lack of cups; this was most problematic on the courses Sunday -- especially when it was late and hot.

While the non-ceremonial awards distribution allowed for earlier departures on Sunday, I feel it made for an anti-climactic conclusion. Since awards were only being given to juniors (no complaints on that), I doubt it saved much time.

For future events with a remote finish (Sunday), please be sure that results print-outs are brought (or electronically transmitted) back to the gathering place / event center frequently.

Overall a really nice meet and great organization by the cadets. At the water stops I visited, the cups were too small. If it hadn't been so hot that probably wouldn't have mattered.

I usually carry my own beverage but noted the tiny cups at the finish. I think it's recommended to use 7-9 oz cups at water stops, and feel 3-5 oz. ones are only for household use. Hope that was just an oversight for this year.

Thank you to all the cadets! You're doing a great job and we enjoy attending West Point meets despite the tough, physical terrain. I thought my middle and sprint courses were extra good and liked all but the climb to 3 on brown-long. :-)

I understand the minimal awards (but really liked the peanut butter from the PX of a few years back... Good stuff!); missed the "awards ceremony" aspect though I realize a lot of folks can't always hang around.

If memory serves, the theory on awards last year was that the money saved on trinkets for winning adults was donated to the JWOC or the WUOC Team. Not sure if that was the plan this year, but that was the origin of the unique awards format last year - it really wasn't an attempt to save time, although I guess that could be an added bonus!

No PB any more, Janet. We looked last year - they stopped selling it. On the bright side, they also got rid of the West Point Steak Sauce, "an epicurean delight served in eateries across West Point," that dated back to my cadet years...and the reason we had an "Alpha One private" assigned to bring A-1 steak sauce to all meals involving steak!

I have nothing but positive comments on anything significant (well, cold shower Sunday was tolerable but contrary to what the notes promised, I think). This event is a highlight of the year for my family and many others - thank you for all the hard work involved in keeping the tradition going!

Thanks for refunding my entry fee due to my broken wrist. Sorry not to be there (and it sounds like middle and long races in M21 were both there for the taking given the poor performance of the field... ;) ).

feet>>Thanks for breaking your wrist and letting me have one. :)

And me the other :)

Just you all wait.

Tick tock....WCOC next week?

From the technical standpoint, I would like to compliment the three course setters who produced events that had the exact specific flavors of the three disciplines. The challenges were very appropriate; it wasn't just a shorter set of medium-length legs for the Middle vs. a longer set for the Long, as it sometimes (most times?) comes out with the less experienced setters (and/or consultants). The essence of the distinction between formats was exactly right.

For the Long, the emphasis was a bit away from EricW's philosophy of stressing all aspects of navigation and more towards endurance, but that's just how the IOF wants it. That last part of the Blue Long was so dead on—not excessively technical and not physically challenging in itself, but after an hour+ in 90-degree weather, a perfect race decider.

I appreciated the Buckner camping option. It's the first time I've taken advantage of it and it was very convenient.

The course quality and overall organization was excellent - I really enjoyed all three races. Thanks to the cadets for a great event!

Great courses, especially liked the Sprint with its many spectating areas.
I agree on the grey for the bare rock, invisible to me (but I found the control anyway).

I heard from a couple of adults that they like the donation of money to the teams instead of awards but they would like some kind of certificate or something like that. I know that I have gotten paper awards from other meets and they were made to depict the event. It might be nice to have the Army emblem or something else that depicts the event (like the cannon design on this year's T-shirt) faded out on a 8.5X11 page with the award info over printed on it. This could be then framed by the receiver if they so desired. If the cost of printing this is a problem then use the Army emblem and print it by the1000 to be used every year that should not be that costly.

If there were any glitches during the weekend it wasn't apparent from my perspective. Thanks for the cooperation and help with the silent auction and concession stand, that was greatly appreciated. Courses were wonderful although I agree with the gray screen comment...didn't really notice it until the ride home. Congratulations on an incredible meet!

I wasn't at the event, but these meet comments are very impressive ( I think they were last year as well?).

It seems to me that the most important job to be done is to pass on the current level of knowledge (standards and practices) to underclassmen. This is a challenge even in well established clubs, let alone university clubs with high turnover. Congratulations and best wishes.

Thank-you for putting on another first class event; we had a wonderful time.

The Quick Reference Card is another example of all the fine work the Cadets put into the meet. Pretty good camping site, better than last year - not as good as having the run of the place, however! Okinawa Hall was a refreshing change.

Some very minor suggestions for improvement:
1. a clock at the start line
2. post the results from day 1 near the assembly/parking area on day 2
3. list the maps we will be running on, in the meet announcement (You told us where we would be starting/parking, but not which map in particular)

Things that you did well, and should continue to do:
1. the quick reference card
2. quick posting of splits on the website, AP and WinSplits
3. route gadget available

I wasn't there for the awards ceremony, but I think limiting it to juniors is just fine.

Thanks again for a great meet.

I might have been partly responsible for no start clock :/ Mike had asked me about DVOA's and it took me a while to get back to him. Still sorry about that!!!!

as for the awards I think it is fine that it is just Juniors. However I think that there should be something on Sunday to kind of close the event. People were kind of just leaving and it was hard to say goodbye, or know who had won and such.

One more little nitpick...

For future A-events, very-late and day-of registration for competitive junior categories, with sufficient open start slots, should be allowed. Besides such flexibility just being a good thing in general, competitive registrations bring in more $$ than recreational ones.

Is there a particular reason why you don't use Mountain Web software for your registration? The orienteering sign up and FAQs are available in the links provided. They certainly make life easier both for the organizing club and for attendees.

GuyO, we have to make some sort of cut-off for late registrations so that we can get finalized information to the epunch, start, and finish crews. However, we do allow day-of registrations for competitive categories (both juniors and adults) - so maybe we just need to make that clearer on the website/in the meet notes?

Ian, back in the day when we first started hosting the A Meet we used our current system because nothing like Mountain Web actually existed. And then we just stuck with it because it's what we'd always done. We are looking at switching over for next year though. I need to look through the administrative demo, but my impression is that it could save myself and the rest of the registration team a lot of hassle.

What is the "Quick Reference Sheet"? Sounds good

The Quick Reference Sheet.

Everyone, thank you for your comments! They will assist in making an even better meet for next year. Thanks for all the compliments as well, it is nice to know our hard work does not go unnoticed.

@hannah: As a registrar myself (2010 Interscholastics / Flying Pig), I can certainly relate! My comment was based on a friend's experience. I can give you more info privately.

BTW, I also recommend Kent Shaw's system, o-signup.com, fka mountainwebsoftware.com.

Probably my favorite part of the movie "Mash" is the colonel who answers every suggestion with something like, "You know, that's a great idea. Would you be interested in organizing that?" It's just a very subtle reminder about how important organizing and delegating are to the military.

My only A-Meet organizing experience is with OCIN every year since 2003---mostly as a course setter. I usually have my head down worrying just about courses and maps and having controls and water in the woods on time. I'm always amazed when everyone shows up with a job on the event weekend and everything just gets done. The funniest thing for me is when I'm driving to the event site and I notice that O' signs are up (directing traffic to the event). The most surreal is when I walk out of the woods into what was an empty parking lot and find a finish chute, download van, food tables and concessions, and portapotties. Possibly the most impressive is when we can drive away 3 or 4 hours after the last finisher, and it's back to being an empty parking lot.

Regarding West Point and the high turnover of experienced A-Meet organizers, I hope the leadership realizes how impressive an organizing feat this is. There is so much to do, a lot of it communicating and picky detail work, and if it doesn't get done, people notice.