Discussion: Cowboy Tough
in: Adventure Racing; General
Jul 16, 2015 12:56 AM
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Somebody had to start it...here's the fun chasing the dots moving at a micropace link:
http://www.cowboytoughwy.com/#!live-map/c1j8w
http://www.cowboytoughwy.com/#!live-map/c1j8w
Jul 16, 2015 5:58 AM
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Bash:
Here's a description of the race course.
https://www.facebook.com/Rev3Adventure/photos/a.15...
https://www.facebook.com/Rev3Adventure/photos/a.15...
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Jul 16, 2015 5:41 PM
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This is going to be a tough one to follow, because of both the map tracker and optional CPs.
Jul 16, 2015 7:35 PM
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The party has started. Follow along at www.cowboytoughwy.com and our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/Rev3Adventure
Jul 17, 2015 1:57 AM
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It looks team BiT (APers: Browner, simpy, and DoubleDown_on11) dropped one paddle CP. Tough to know where they are placed right now, but they are tracking in a grouping of teams 1/2 or 2/3 back from leaders.
Jul 17, 2015 6:17 AM
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Bash:
Thanks, Squirt! I'm getting ready to race for 26 hours this weekend so I'm counting on this AP thread to keep me updated when I'm able to glance at it. FB, I know you know how! ;)
On Facebook, BiT mentioned their goal was simply to collect all the mandatory CPs, although I'm sure they'll grab optional CPs when they can.
On Facebook, BiT mentioned their goal was simply to collect all the mandatory CPs, although I'm sure they'll grab optional CPs when they can.
Jul 17, 2015 12:59 PM
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ang:
Team Canada may have dropped a couple spots in the ranking while looking for CP19 . They are heading to CP20 currently. CP19 was located at over 10.000ft (>3000m) of elevation.
(p.s. not sure about exact elevation but it's high)
(p.s. not sure about exact elevation but it's high)
Jul 17, 2015 1:19 PM
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It's going to be tight for BiT to make it into the end-of-day 1 TA before they must leave again. Teams must leave there by 8am.
Jul 17, 2015 1:40 PM
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ang:
What happens if teams don't make it to CP21 before 8 a.m. MST.? Bike directly to CP28?
Jul 17, 2015 2:37 PM
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ang:
I guess it will be Plan B for Team Canada and Bit.....and many other teams?
Jul 17, 2015 3:10 PM
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REV3Adventure confirmed on facebook that they are working on a plan b for those teams that do not leave by 8am. Maybe they will not be allowed to attempt the optional CPs on the way to the rappel or shuttled straight to the rappel.
Jul 17, 2015 3:16 PM
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Swedish Armed Forces picked up a bunch of optional CPs at the end of day 1 that not many other teams attempted. They could be in first place.
Jul 17, 2015 3:42 PM
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ang:
From Facebook.
Update from the race director: Day 1 ends and day 2 starts. The leaderboard has been updated.
The test of navigation and endurance on rough technical trails has begun to take a toll. Only half all teams have made it to the end of day 1 cut off and the remaining teams will now become unofficial. We will probably make a special “Short” course for these teams depending on how many want to continue. Everyone is here for their own adventure and making off the mountain and through day01 cutoff or not, this is a huge accomplishment. The section of the course from CP18 through CP21 was steep and technical and had trail that disappeared and reappeared. As predicted and forewarned, this is the area that took a toll on many of the teams.
Teams were all together through the Buffalo challenges, the paddle on Lake DeSmet, challenges at Fort Phil Kerney, and through the Story Penrose trail head. Team Trainology felt the heat at the start of the trek after CP14 and decided to drop. Adventure Capitalists lost one man, became unofficial, and continued on. They were one of the last teams to make it into CP21 and EOD1 before 8 am and are continuing on unofficial but now as a 4 person.
Tecnu and Swedish Armed Forces battled all day 4 first place. Tecnu opted to drop 2 points on the end of day O-course to leave at 6am. Swedish Armed Forces worked right to the cut off at 8am and managed to clear the O-course, putting them 2 points in the lead.
CP11 was in the wrong location during the paddle and teams who looked for it have been credited for the point. OC1-04 was also missing, probably blown away, and teams looking for that have been credited.
It's remote out here, and sometimes we have to drive a long to get to Internet access, so thanks for your patience with updates.
Update from the race director: Day 1 ends and day 2 starts. The leaderboard has been updated.
The test of navigation and endurance on rough technical trails has begun to take a toll. Only half all teams have made it to the end of day 1 cut off and the remaining teams will now become unofficial. We will probably make a special “Short” course for these teams depending on how many want to continue. Everyone is here for their own adventure and making off the mountain and through day01 cutoff or not, this is a huge accomplishment. The section of the course from CP18 through CP21 was steep and technical and had trail that disappeared and reappeared. As predicted and forewarned, this is the area that took a toll on many of the teams.
Teams were all together through the Buffalo challenges, the paddle on Lake DeSmet, challenges at Fort Phil Kerney, and through the Story Penrose trail head. Team Trainology felt the heat at the start of the trek after CP14 and decided to drop. Adventure Capitalists lost one man, became unofficial, and continued on. They were one of the last teams to make it into CP21 and EOD1 before 8 am and are continuing on unofficial but now as a 4 person.
Tecnu and Swedish Armed Forces battled all day 4 first place. Tecnu opted to drop 2 points on the end of day O-course to leave at 6am. Swedish Armed Forces worked right to the cut off at 8am and managed to clear the O-course, putting them 2 points in the lead.
CP11 was in the wrong location during the paddle and teams who looked for it have been credited for the point. OC1-04 was also missing, probably blown away, and teams looking for that have been credited.
It's remote out here, and sometimes we have to drive a long to get to Internet access, so thanks for your patience with updates.
Jul 17, 2015 4:17 PM
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Update from CT Facebook:
About 15 teams were given the short course options, which are:
At this time all teams must leave CP21 on bike.
After CP29 they can head straight to End of Day (EOD) 2 on Hazelton road and skip Meadowlark Lake. If they don't get to CP29 by 3pm they must go straight to EOD2.
EOD2 cut off has been extended to 10am on Saturday.
About 15 teams were given the short course options, which are:
At this time all teams must leave CP21 on bike.
After CP29 they can head straight to End of Day (EOD) 2 on Hazelton road and skip Meadowlark Lake. If they don't get to CP29 by 3pm they must go straight to EOD2.
EOD2 cut off has been extended to 10am on Saturday.
Jul 17, 2015 4:25 PM
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Looks like there was lots of dense fog or cloud overnight and into the morning that has made navigation difficult
Jul 17, 2015 6:34 PM
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ang:
Team Canada has about 2.5 more hours to get to the rappelling section at CP29. Their tracker has just moved from the TA and they are riding ! yeah.
Jul 18, 2015 1:22 AM
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BIT has strategically decided to go straight to the EOD2 TA after the mid-day rappel. Hope they get a good rest there.
Jul 18, 2015 1:26 AM
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Quite frankly, I don't know the teams who are on the trek just after the rappel are going to make it to the EOD2 on time!
Jul 18, 2015 5:44 PM
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Best I can tell Tecnu and Swedish Armed forces had the lead. Tecnu intentionally skipped 2 (?) CPs to make the cutoff. Swedish Armed Forces went for them, missed the cut off and moving forward unranked.
Jul 18, 2015 10:33 PM
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Holding their own on the 'Adventure' course (which most teams are now on). They appear to have had a good night's rest, so we'll see how much of this rogaine course they will attempt tonight.
Jul 19, 2015 1:51 AM
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I saw them at the bottom of the Hole in the Wall. They looked fine and seemed to be having fun. The altitude did a number on Canada AR but they are feeling better.
Jul 19, 2015 2:11 AM
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so... 24/31 teams are unofficial 2 days in. Seems the course is bigger/slower than they thought?
Jul 19, 2015 12:20 PM
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ang:
Team Canada left Willow Creek ranch and is on their way to Cp63. Four more Cps and then a paddle and white water to the finish. Sunny day in Casper with temps around 25C by the time they'll finish. Currently it's 12C..brrr
Jul 19, 2015 11:31 PM
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Super fun race but it was evident prior to the event that online watching would be difficult. So many variables and options.
Jul 20, 2015 5:02 AM
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That was difficult, but probably not as difficult as attempting to make sense of what was happening at home.
Jul 20, 2015 7:07 PM
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That's two ARWS races in a row that were quite difficult to follow along with. It's an opportunity lost in my view as people are genuinely interested and want to keep track. On the contrary, South Africa was really well done and I just couldn't stay away from my computer.
Jul 20, 2015 7:31 PM
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FB:
That's a big part of why I went back to SA this year. Not to say anything bad about other RD's, but Stephan and Heidi are so dialed in from the time you think about signing up until you get back to the airport after the race... it's pretty amazing. They understand the race experience from everyone's perspective - racer, volunteer, staff, spectator, sponsor... it's combination of hard work AND experience I think.
Jul 20, 2015 8:33 PM
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Cowboy Tough has gotten routinely positive reviews from racers in terms of competitive experience, and it provides a unique daily hard cutoff, but now that it has hit the big time (ARWS), the spectator experience definitely needs elevated.
Jul 22, 2015 4:23 PM
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Jul 24, 2015 6:02 PM
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Jac:
The daily cutoff was sure a new thing for me. Created extra stress and increased the strategic nature of the race. Here is Nordic Adventure race report
http://nordicadventure.net/index.php/component/eas...
http://nordicadventure.net/index.php/component/eas...
Jul 25, 2015 7:50 PM
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Here is the link to my race videos.
https://vimeo.com/channels/2015cowboytough
https://vimeo.com/channels/2015cowboytough
Jul 30, 2015 6:13 PM
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@F-Torti and @Phatty, we'd love to hear some of your specific suggestions on how to improve the spectator experience.
Jul 30, 2015 10:58 PM
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i wrote a RR. I pretty much ignored the competition side of things sense that would be near impossible to describe.
http://ar.attackpoint.org/viewlog.jsp/user_6427/pe...
http://ar.attackpoint.org/viewlog.jsp/user_6427/pe...
Jul 31, 2015 1:34 PM
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@Rev3AR - From an online spectator perspective, it was quite difficult to match up what was going on in the field with what was viewable on the screen. What teams are heading for what CPs? Who's ahead of who? What discipline is a given team on? Ongoing commentary that makes sense of the complexity would go a long way to draw people into the action on the racecourse. Otherwise, content isn't put into perspective and online viewers withdraw, waiting for a sleepmonsters article or someone like Bash to explain everything eloquently!
Jul 31, 2015 2:47 PM
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Bash:
I was racing that weekend so I was counting on other Attackpointers!
One of the biggest aids to spectators is an online copy of the maps and instructions that the racers are using, clearly indicating disciplines and mandatory vs. optional CPs in races where that happens. Sorry - maybe these were posted on the site after the race started; I was only able to be online sporadically so I'm not the best person to comment on this event.
An up-to-date, informative leaderboard is the other top priority.
One of the biggest aids to spectators is an online copy of the maps and instructions that the racers are using, clearly indicating disciplines and mandatory vs. optional CPs in races where that happens. Sorry - maybe these were posted on the site after the race started; I was only able to be online sporadically so I'm not the best person to comment on this event.
An up-to-date, informative leaderboard is the other top priority.
Jul 31, 2015 2:58 PM
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Thanks for your suggestions. We hear you, and we do consider the spectator experience very much and want it to be as good as possible. Bear in mind that these reporters you mention are not at the event at all or working alongside any teams; they are in all cases pulling together the information we provided on Facebook, our web page, and our daily press releases. You must factor in the typical AR factors of remoteness of the course, no cell or Internet service for days, and various types of online viewers. Families and friends who want to know their teams are alive and well seemed to find it more than adequate; a spectator who wants to understand a racers' strategy may not--but the race directors don't always even know that. And sometimes things are just plugging along nicely and a working tracker and the race description tell the story. We hope by providing interesting tidbits of issues that arise, course layout, online tracking, the racers' rule of travel, and media/pics/video posts from the course the spectator can find the information they are looking for. The rules of travel explain which discipline is being used to get to which CP (which is marked on the map and teams can be tracked making their way to each). Our format allows teams to use strategy, which may not allow a spectator to see who's ahead of who at all times (until we can download their info), but it definitely makes it more interesting. This is an area we are constantly trying to improve, so we appreciate your input.
Aug 1, 2015 3:34 PM
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REV3AR, there is a similar race to the CT (in terms of mandatory and optional CPs) going on right now. The Beast of Ballyhoura. It is serving as the Euro League Champs. Here is a snap shot of the types of commentary that race fans following the race at home would really appreciate.
https://m.facebook.com/home.php?refsrc=https%3A%2F...
It seems to me that even with limited resources a dedicated person should be put on the job of following the completion side of the race and can keep racers updated at TAs / End of Day camps as well as fans following the race at home.
Although I prefer a more traditional linear course than the 'get as many points as possible,' I understand what you ate trying to accomplish. (Your mobile TA and staff wouldn't work with teams stretched out across WY.) I would really appreciate knowing what is happening in the race from a competition side of things. It's a big part of the reason I race.
Also I would recommend keeping the majority of your optional CPs towards the end of each day and give the racers a look at what it would take to get back to camp. You typically do this but the 26 mile optional trek on Day 2 was a huge risk for us. We obviously made it work, but if more of the roads / trails on the next leg were unrideable we would have missed the cut off to start day 3, $5,000, free entry into ARWC ($6,000?), SOG weapons, and heaps of Powerbars. The loss wouldn't have been based on our AR skills as much as luck. Conversely, if more of the roads / trails were rideable we would have lost to the Swedish Armed Forces team would spent 2-3 hours more than us on day 1 and took 2 more CPs than us.
We also had a 1:100k map for the final 100 kilometer bike ride to finish day 2 the large climb was visible, but the relentless slow rollers on the second half were not see on the map you provided-not allowing racers to accurately estimate their rate of travel.
Your races are highly organized, and I look forward to the next Cowboy Tough and would love to see you host the World Champs in the not so distant future. I have plenty more feedback if you wanted to take this out of he public forum.
https://m.facebook.com/home.php?refsrc=https%3A%2F...
It seems to me that even with limited resources a dedicated person should be put on the job of following the completion side of the race and can keep racers updated at TAs / End of Day camps as well as fans following the race at home.
Although I prefer a more traditional linear course than the 'get as many points as possible,' I understand what you ate trying to accomplish. (Your mobile TA and staff wouldn't work with teams stretched out across WY.) I would really appreciate knowing what is happening in the race from a competition side of things. It's a big part of the reason I race.
Also I would recommend keeping the majority of your optional CPs towards the end of each day and give the racers a look at what it would take to get back to camp. You typically do this but the 26 mile optional trek on Day 2 was a huge risk for us. We obviously made it work, but if more of the roads / trails on the next leg were unrideable we would have missed the cut off to start day 3, $5,000, free entry into ARWC ($6,000?), SOG weapons, and heaps of Powerbars. The loss wouldn't have been based on our AR skills as much as luck. Conversely, if more of the roads / trails were rideable we would have lost to the Swedish Armed Forces team would spent 2-3 hours more than us on day 1 and took 2 more CPs than us.
We also had a 1:100k map for the final 100 kilometer bike ride to finish day 2 the large climb was visible, but the relentless slow rollers on the second half were not see on the map you provided-not allowing racers to accurately estimate their rate of travel.
Your races are highly organized, and I look forward to the next Cowboy Tough and would love to see you host the World Champs in the not so distant future. I have plenty more feedback if you wanted to take this out of he public forum.
This discussion thread is closed.