Discussion: Feedback

We would like to hear your feedback on what could be done better!

As we plan for our next meet in 2017 near Stanley (ID) we do want to deliver better quality.

One of the things not to expectations of both competitors and organizers was too thin map bags. Unfortunately, this was the only brand that was available from O-store. We also didn't seal map bags given the very dry weather and virtual absence of any water features on Gold Rush Hills map. I have heard at least one complain about it. I also know that some competitors prefer to remove maps from bags (me included) if weather permits. Your thoughts on this and other details are greatly appreciated.

Second, for sprint map we decided to use trail symbols instead of unpaved path symbol due to clattered details around canals and streams. We felt it would provide better readability at higher speed. While it was legit we would like to hear your feedback on this too.

Thank you,
Sergey

I thought the event was great and can't wait for the next one. Your events deserve the most high profile status you are comfortable with. They are that good.

I appreciate the request for constructive feedback and the willingness to strive to always do things better.

Since you asked... I echo the comments about the map bags. I prefer sealed bags, and I think at major IOF events (WC, WOC) that is a requirement, as well as particular thickness. Those were a bit thin.

It is true that with lack of water, the risk to the paper maps was small. However, these days with laser or other non-offset maps, paper quality, thickness, and gloss is different. Print quality was great--no complaints about that--but, paper quality is not the same. That can be 'offset', so to speak, with maps in appropriately thick bags, sealed, without too much air.

Sprint drafting... I appreciate that rationale. I didn't think it was an issue, but it is worth noting.

The map cases were too thin as noted above, and it's unfortunate when a map case is so flimsy that many will simply discard the thing mid-race. 4 mil poly bags are worth every single penny and represent such a tiny fraction of the cost that goes into a race anyway; any economizing on the thickness is false economy of the first order.

I wish I had known about the map case situation because I would have gladly brought several hundred from home and donated them. They can be readily purchased online from any number of sources (Uline, Staples, etc.)

I really appreciate the efforts to make the race as safe as possible given the extraordinary weather conditions. Hauling water into the forest is hard work and takes time.

And personally I *especially* appreciate the sponges with ice water and the extremely kind meet workers (Jennifer) and others who kept checking to make sure a pretty toasted swampfox was doing okay. Saints!

Perhaps Mike will post about his ways of buying map bags. I know we (OCIN) have been uphappy with some recent cloudy bags, and I know we have a strategy for minimizing shipping cost, either by buying large quantities at once, or trying to pick up rather than ship.

I thought this was a terrific event on all fronts. CTOC did a great job adapting to last minute issues like the heat wave, Saturday dinner changes, etc. I really appreciated the accommodations Saturday night at Camp Ivydale. The courses were all well-crafted, challenging and fun. And the terrain on Saturday and Sunday exceeded my high expectations.

One possible minor improvement - it is nice to have start times printed on either the individual event packets or race bibs.

Thanks to everyone involved for all the hard work that went into planning and staging this event.

Agree on all of the above and am looking forward to a meet in Stanley in 2017 or sooner. Very willing to volunteer again. Liked the idea of doing the middle on Sunday to give people some extra travel time and let some of the volunteers go home a little earlier. First class event!

3 mil. matte heat activated lamination of the maps is the best way before going into water / rip proof paper printing. Bags are bad news always for readability of the map, especially for long course in adverse conditions, some of us like to fold the map more than others :)

Agree on above with general awesomeness of meet (thanks!) and map bag problems.

One additional constructive critique (although don't take *only* my word for this, I'd like to hear it echo'ed by others before taken too seriously)- about 1/4-1/3 through on Saturday's ultra long Red there was a point when I was wading through really tough over-waist high underbrush that I thought some sort of brashing (green vertical lines) marking would have been really helpful for route planning. Specifically, I would have attempted to find another route if I knew this one rough-open hill was actually covered in these bushes. If I'm remembering, high blueberries on Harriman get mapped like this and it is helpful to know to be able to plan to avoid if there's a way. I don't think it's a pervasive problem with the map, but in that area would have been helpful!

And yeah, totally looking forward to Stanley 2017!

We had a blast. We appreciated:
-fair controls in the right place, accurate mapping.
-challenging courses that required focus. No "out and around" trail run options on the UL that allowed you to just zone out and run fast.
-safety-conscious course design (regardless of how one counted the climb! :-) ), as well as a hard look at water, keeping people cool, and identifying previous heat casualties and tracking them out on the course. The extreme weather was a challenge, and you really thought through mitigating its effects well. These are probably worth sharing somewhere OUSA-wide for the next club that faces such a challenge.
-awesome lodging at Camp Ivy Dale, and good event website that allowed us to take advantage of local offerings. It was great to hang out with all our West Coast O friends that we don't see so often any more.
-great volunteers. We'll enjoy working with you again! Thanks for accommodating our child care concerns on the mass start - this is an increasingly difficult challenge for families with kids to handle. For other clubs who may consider a mass start for all courses, please consider how you might handle families with two parents who compete, kids who may need to be shadowed, and kids who may be too young to be left unsupervised for 2-3 hours. It's doable, but can create a lot of stress for all involved. Thanks again for helping get all 3 Campbells out on our courses.

Only one offering for improvement - later starts for the sprint on the first day. There will always be those who must travel the day of the event, and midday starts prevented some from participating and created a time crunch for others. Perhaps the OUSA meeting could be held before the race? Or perhaps a call for additional volunteers /equipment would ease the burden on the organizers? In the end, it was cooler at 11:00; however, in general it seemed this was unnecessarily early for the first event of a 3-day series.

If Ali is referring to leg 7-8 on red, I might concur on the vegetation marking suggestion. I exited 7 and went right of the hill (and the line) because the vegetation looked so thick ahead of me where I had planned to go (closer to the line). It was better where I ran, although I'm not sure the map really showed that. Not what I planned to do, but it ended up working out well and I had a faster split than usual.

Again, awesome event - great courses, terrain, maps, and all of you made it one of our favorites in recent memory. Can't wait to do it again!

From my point of view, I would also like to add that the safety plan that they had was a good one. At the cut-off 5 hour time limit, they were ready to search and luckily didn't have to as everyone returned. At the same time, they were basically ready to start searching when the time limit was up, they were not gathering people together, they were ready to go. Under 100 degree conditions, this was what was needed but nice that it wasn't used. Great meet.

It was a fantastic event; great work, CTOC! I agree with the comments above (except I don't know about laminating the maps; I like sealed 4mil polyethylene bags, personally).

I think it was fine and probably preferable to use the trail-in-forest symbol as it was used on the sprint map.

A few additional comments on areas for improvement:

1. The map printing should emulate the overprinting effect, and it did not. This is a common oversight among organizers of orienteering events. There is an example of how the map should look near the beginning of ISOM, and this should be followed. Specifically, contours should darken when they cross green or yellow areas of the map, and control circles, numbers, and connecting lines should do the same (and be transparent, so as not to hide underlying map features.)

2. I thought all the courses were very good, provided distinctly different styles of orienteering on the different days, and each included a variety of navigation problems. I think the middle courses could have been further improved by some additional short legs in the super detailed hydromining areas (maybe offset by slightly longer legs through the blander areas.) The ultra-long course seemed to me to be a long-distance style course that was simply slightly lengthened. I enjoy seeing more very long legs (2-4 km) and more emphasis on route choice and rough navigation (perhaps including significant road and trail runs, if they result from a clever/non-obvious route choice). These are both minor points, and as I said, the courses were very good.

3. I support the choice to shorten the ultra-long courses, given the extremely hot weather, and the frequency and abundance of water was a heroic and totally appropriate response to the heat. I felt that I and the other competitors were very well taken care of.

4. I don't know if Ali is talking about the hillside between ultra blue controls 10 and 11, but that area could certainly have used some sort of green symbol. Many parts of the terrain had scattered bushes, but these bushes were fairly dense and slowed the running significantly. This is the only location where I noticed a level of map inaccuracy that I thought somewhat affected the course.

5. To accommodate people that prefer to run with the map not in a bag, scissors could be provided at the map pick-up line at the start, so that anyone who wanted to could remove the map from its sealed case.